Hello Everyone and Help Please

[JimmyDutch]

Hello everyone! I have been lurking around for a while and I am extremely grateful to everyone here for all the help/information I have received. I am new to this type of boating, I previously had a bass boat and I am very much a beginner. We recently bought a 1985 F36 Convertible 460. We had her surveyed (structural and mechanical) and she checked out OK. We had the engines, Crusader 454s, and the transmissions serviced. Then last Wednesday me and my 25-year-old son brought her home from Everett Washington, to John Wayne Marina in Sequim Washington. It was a 60 mile adventure and we both can’t stop smiling. The wife is another story and she kept whistling the theme to Gilligan’s Island!

Now the help part… The previous owner kept her in a boatyard, drydock, type of marina. She was always taken in and out of the water with a forklift type tractor when they wanted to go for a cruise. (after reading the boat’s Manual provided by Bob, I read this size of a boat should not have been kept out of water.) I give you this background to help explain why this issue was most likely missed by the surveyor. Today, Saturday, we went down to the boat and checked the bilge. The boat has three bilge pumps, the forward bilge was filled to a few inches below the floor. The middle pump had water above its inlet and it came on. The rear bilge was mostly empty. It turns out that the forward and rear bilge pump’s automatic switches did not work. If it were not for the middle pump’s automatic switch working, we could have had some real damage, or a submarine! We replaced the inoperable switches and all three are working in automatic mode now. After that very lengthy explanation, the situation is that we are continuing to get saltwater into the bilge, it seems to accumulate in the mid and forward areas. It appears to be about a ½ gallon every few hours, so we have a pretty good leak somewhere. I do see moisture around one of the strainer valves, but nothing that would produce that much water.

I’m afraid that I know the answer to this, however I was wondering if you folks thought that these issues should be addressed immediately by going to dry dock and having all the through valves replaced and sealed, along with whatever else may be found as a leak source. OR… Can I keep an eye on it and enjoy her until the winter and then have the work done?
Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Jim.

[oil&water]

Jim,

Unless you have a crack or a leaking thru-hull, then you should be able to diagnosis in the water, make repairs, and enjoy the boat. The F36's are bow heavy and will accumulate water up at the bow first.

Start by drying out the bilge with a manual pump, like a Beckson Thirsty Mate pumped into a five gallon bucket. Any residual water, mop up with a sponge or towel. You can then survey where it is running in from and determine what rate. It is very possible to just have a leaking hose from a thru-hull. Another very prone to issue area is the shaft logs. See how much water is dripping (or running) out from the where the shafts go through the hull of the boat. Also make a point to check the rudder shaft collars which are also famous for leaking when not adjusted properly. Fortunately, the shafts and rudders if leaking can usually be adjusted. If they can't be adjusted further, you can either hire someone to repack them in the water or have the marina lift the boat out for a couple of hours on a lift to do it. Not a hard job, just time consuming for the novice.

For your thru-hulls, check the following.
1) A/C pump under floor just in front of the stairs from the galley.
2) Each engine's intake
3) Genset intake in stern.
4) If your boat has raw water wash down, check for a thru-hull for that as well. Not sure where that would be located.
5) Check for damaged hoses or hose clamps on all thru-hull to components.

There are several hatches into the bilge throughout the boat. Lift up the carpet in the forward berth and dinette area to access them.

Do the same in the galley and helm (if equipped) area. This area is much tighter than the rest of the boat and will be more difficult to access and assess.

Crawl around the engines to check for leaks there. Do the same for the lazarette.

Please report back on what you find. You will be shocked at how much water a little leak can produce overnight.

[prowlersfish]

A half a gallon in a few hours will be small leak so it may not be easy to see . First I would, look at the shafts to see if they are leaking ,note a few drips are normal and needed to lube and cool the packing and will leak more under way . Also look at the rudder shafts while the same packing as the shafts the should be adjusted not to leak .


How often is you front pump coming on ? All water will run forward and that pump will do all the work . I Really suspect a shaft packing issue . But some water will be normal due to a slight drip at the packing . Rain water will also go there . You also get water from AC units if you have them on .

Again how often is the pump coming on ( just try o gage how bad of a leak you have )

[JimmyDutch]

See, now that’s what I’m talking about! Thank you Oil & Water and Prowlersfish for your responses. What a great community and asset to any boat owner.

Oil & Water… I will pick up a manual pump today and do a better inspection using your advice and guidelines and let everyone know how that inspection goes.

Prowlersfish… I will check the shafts and the packing to see if they need adjusting or repacking (if I can’t figure it out using the manual, I will get a mechanic). The front pump wasn’t coming on at all, the float switch wasn’t working, we replaced it last night as well as the rear bilge pump float switch. The middle bilge pump came on with about a one hour delay, I will pay more attention to how often it (the now working front pump) comes on today.

Great information, thanks to both of you for taking the time. This Trojan thing is going to be a great adventure AND learning experience for me!

[The Dog House]

If you have flax packing in your stuffing boxes it may not have completely swelled yet. When I had flax packing it would take a week or two in the water for the leaking to slow to it's normal rate. If the leaking is coming from the stuffing boxes I would wait a little bit before adjusting them. I would also recommend switching to GFO packing this Winter. The GFO packing doesn't swell and contract so you can set it and forget it.

[JimmyDutch]

Thanks Dog House..

Guys,
Okay it looks like I found the leak and you guys were right it is coming from the "shaft area" the starboard side shaft has a quickly dripping, to slow running water leak. It is dripping from the left (in the picture) bottom side of the hose clamp probably from the deteriorated end of that green cuff, then back under to where it drips into the bilge. And as I said, I am a beginner and I don't even know if that is the "packing" area or not… I also noticed that the apparent grounding system for the shaft, which is in place on the port side, was laying in the water below the shaft and is a all rusty.

So… Due to my limited, or I should say, no mechanical skills (I almost killed myself just taking these photos!) I am going to hire a mechanic to remedy, probably both shafts, so I start from the same place on them.

Prowlersfish... The front bilge pump comes on for approximately 20 seconds every three hours.

So, I think I am looking at a mechanic for the shaft thingamajig and an electrician to replace the ground/bonding thingamajig. Any further advice or explanation regarding the photos or how to phrase, or explain it to the mechanic and electrician would be greatly appreciated! And again, thank everyone for their input so far… Jim

SS Leak

SS Shaft.jpg (181.45 KiB) Viewed 9596 times

PS Shaft with Ground

PS Shaft.jpg (155.48 KiB) Viewed 9596 times

Old SS Ground?

SS Shaft Ground.jpg (147.67 KiB) Viewed 9596 times

[AlphaJustin]

That's a ground? Looks like a sensor of sorts. Glad you found your source no one wants to see the top of their boat from the parking lot.

[oil&water]

Jim,

Those appear to be part of a shaft grounding system. It would have been added by a previous owner as extra protection against stray marina current. Whether you need it or not would be a question of how fast the underwater metals are damaged. Think of it as a lightning rod for underwater to protect against galvanic corrosion. Not absolutely necessary, but extra insurance, just in case.

[oil&water]

... and glad you are getting down to the root of the problems.

[prowlersfish]

I am shocked the surveyor did not say anything about this . What the gizmo is a brush set up to keep the shaft bonded to the boat . Definitely seen better days . If this was My boat , I would remove them make sure I had zincs on the shafts and be done with it . Others may disagree. But if want to keep the system there are simpler set ups that can be used . As far as your leak it looks like you found it




.https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/product ... 26718.html

[captainmaniac]

I am shocked the surveyor did not say anything about this .

+1

As I read through the thread I was going to ask how you picked your surveyor... if something as basic as bad float switches on bilge pumps were missed - multiple times - what else did they miss? As well this wiring mess and the disconnected 'grounding system' wire should have been caught. If they inspected the boat in the water they should have observed and commented on the source of the leak(s) if the volume is that much. No offence intended, but doesn't sound like this surveyor did a very good job.

Two thoughts - do some research on top rated local surveyors and consider hiring another one to chk things over again, to find out if anything else / what else was missed. Spend a couple more hundred to find out if you have a thousand or more dollar problem, or fundamental safety hazard. Also, make sure whatever mechanic or electrical people you bring in to effect repairs are marine certified professionals.

Hoping that your problem is only stuffing boxes, which are easy enough to deal with. First time I did it myself I was pleasantly surprised how little flow came in when I pulled the packing nut. And if you prep for the job before pulling the nut you don't have any more than a couple minutes of the flow. This gives you an idea of what's involved (as long as copy paste of URL work) http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box

[JimmyDutch]

Hey everyone thank you for your responses.

Oil&Water and Prowlersfish, thank you for taking the time to keep up with this post and respond with so much information.

AlphaJustin, I couldn't agree more regarding the parking lot view and we have the same sense of humor!

On a more serious note…
Captainmaniac and Prowlersfish, I picked the structural surveyor from Google, obviously not the best way to do it. I am new to Washington (and boating) and didn't know anybody to ask... I guess I was shooting from the hip, which isn't always a smart thing to do. I will take your advice and have a second surveyor go through the boat, mostly for safety reasons that you mentioned may have been missed and my granddaughters will be on it! Hopefully you all will have enough patience to deal with me!

Captainmaniac, Your link did work and there is some great information there. However I am going to print it and make sure the mechanic I find sees it. I tried again today and I can't get anywhere near those shafts... Too tall and too fat! Not to mention I would probably screwed it up and end up having to hire someone to clean up the mess at twice the cost...

I have been asking around the marina and am trying to find a good, certified mechanic and electrician. Thanks again everyone this forum is a great asset! Anybody out there with any recommendations on the Olympic Peninsula in Washington it would be great to hear from you! Jim

[oldboat1]

I have my work done by the folks who pull and store my boat -- convenient if it works out. One of the best tools to have on board while breaking in a new-to-you boat is a wet/dry vacuum -- something small enough to move around easily in the usual small spaces. Helps to get the bilge as dry as you can when checking for seepage.

Nice area you have there. (Go Dawgs!)

[Misty]

Who was this surveyor? I'm sure you'll get the boat up to speed but I would spend a month and some thousands , due diligence/insurance. Bilges, thruhulls, plumbing, electrical basics etc...

[todd brinkerhoff]

I'd check around with the boat community and marina's and see if you can get a name of a reputable surveyor. With it now in the water, and the issues that should have been found, I'd pay the money for a new surveyor. That way, you have fewer surprises. If you have wiring issues at the log, you're bound to have some wiring issues in other locations.

Todd