83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

This forum is for comments and the exchange of information relating to Trojan Boats and boating. Please do not post used parts or boats For Sale in this area. For general, non-boating topics please use our "General Discussions" section.

Note: Negative or inflammatory postings will not be tolerated.

Moderators: BeaconMarineBob, Moderator, BeaconMarineDon

swampman
Registered user
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:54 pm

Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by swampman »

You guys here have given thoughtful and experienced advice to any numbers of people that have bought Trojans to fix up and recover and deserve better than being compared to goats.

Mike
[/quote]

Posting Break out another thousand to a guy that is doing his best to educate himself is not helpful .
Call em like I see em .
User avatar
prowlersfish
2024 Gold Support
2024 Gold Support
Posts: 12645
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:56 pm
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay ,Va

Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by prowlersfish »

swampman wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:02 pm
Posting Break out another thousand to a guy that is doing his best to educate himself is not helpful .
Call em like I see em .
Chill out , its someone's way of saying that owning and maintaining a 36' foot is far from cheap .A 36 foot boat is 4 to 5 times the boat a 21 footer is . Everyone that has posted it trying to be helpful in their own way .
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
User avatar
RWS
Ultimate User
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:01 am
Location: West Coast Florida
Contact:

Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by RWS »

prowlersfish wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:12 pm
swampman wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:02 pm
Posting Break out another thousand to a guy that is doing his best to educate himself is not helpful .
Call em like I see em .
Chill out , its someone's way of saying that owning and maintaining a 36' foot is far from cheap .A 36 foot boat is 4 to 5 times the boat a 21 footer is . Everyone that has posted it trying to be helpful in their own way .
+1

I left a key word out of my post from yesterday - just inserted the missing word ENGINES, changes everything.

Swampman: I "get" you, and wish you the best of luck moving forward. Sure do hope you will consider the great advice that has been freely and voluntarily provided here for your benefit, from those of us who have been there, done that.

Although you may not agree with the guidance provided here, I certainly hope you will consider it.

This FORUM has a tremendous proven history of folks helping one another.

RWS
1983 10 Meter SOLD after 21 years of adventures
Yanmar diesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner
Survived Andrew Cat 5,Eye of Charley Cat 4, & Irma Cat 2
Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

WEBSITE & SITELOCK TOTALLY SELF FUNDED
swampman
Registered user
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:54 pm

Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by swampman »

RWS wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:16 am
prowlersfish wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:12 pm
swampman wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:02 pm
Posting Break out another thousand to a guy that is doing his best to educate himself is not helpful .
Call em like I see em .
Chill out , its someone's way of saying that owning and maintaining a 36' foot is far from cheap .A 36 foot boat is 4 to 5 times the boat a 21 footer is . Everyone that has posted it trying to be helpful in their own way .
+1

I left a key word out of my post from yesterday - just inserted the missing word ENGINES, changes everything.

Swampman: I "get" you, and wish you the best of luck moving forward. Sure do hope you will consider the great advice that has been freely and voluntarily provided here for your benefit, from those of us who have been there, done that.

Although you may not agree with the guidance provided here, I certainly hope you will consider it.

This FORUM has a tremendous proven history of folks helping one another.

RWS

There is alot of great information on here . I've been spending hours everynight reading through post and trying to come up with the right keywords to dig up useful information . I don't mean to be an ass but im trying to make a serious decision here based on gaining knowledge of these boats , common issues , how others have dealt with them and i took a bit of offense to seemingly being dismissed as someone who isnt considering the big picture or doesnt have the ability or drive to follow through . Im sorry if i was snippy , but im not that guy . What i am is a blue collar redneck that isnt afraid to get his hands dirty , learn new skills and take on projects that would scare most folks off . So long as the Good Lord sees fit to let me have my health and gainful employment i can do this . What i am aware of is if i buy this boat i will be married to it for better or worse . I will obsess over it and it will take every spare moment and dime i have for years until i get it where i want it , and it still wont be perfect , but i will have confidence in the end that i know every inch of it and the pride in what ive accomplished . I live for that , and i know some of you fellow gearheads know where i come from . Im not rich , likely never will be . Ill never have a 350k yacht nor likely even a 50k one . But id bet i can take this 36 footer and bring her back to mechnically sound and reasonably restored , and when and if i do ill be just as happy with her and you fellas making 6 or 7 figures who have to pay to have most everything done . Im just a redneck with a dream of owning a yacht , a God given talent for fixing most anything and a limited budget , My hangup right now is winter storage fees , that money could be so much better spent of upkeep and updates but it is what it is . Im not sure if i will commit to it . But if i do ill keep you updated , help when i can. and appreciate all the help i can find here . I've found alot already , but ive had to dig and lost alot of sleep hours doing so . So it begins.
User avatar
prowlersfish
2024 Gold Support
2024 Gold Support
Posts: 12645
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:56 pm
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay ,Va

Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by prowlersfish »

Most here are close to or are 100% hands on like my self . Very few pay to have it all done . In fact I can think of anyone here who has to pay to have most everything done .
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
User avatar
RWS
Ultimate User
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:01 am
Location: West Coast Florida
Contact:

Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by RWS »

you may not realize it, but the guys on this FORUM and for the most part, all do-it-yourselfers, much like you.

While there are some here who know how to do things like measure crankshaft clearance, or pop test an injector, we bring various skillsets to the table however for the most part we are not a bunch of rich guys hiring everything out.

Consider that most of these boats are for the most part 30 - 50 years old.

No one here owns a "$350,000 yacht"

If the members of this forum were "making 6-7 figures", we would likely be doing something newer.

Rest assured, all of us here are in the SAME BOAT as you, and we all have somewhat similar skillsets, but to different degrees.

This forum has become a means where we can share ideas, and learn from others who have already been there and done that, and even pick up some new ways of doing things

I have come a long way in terms of knowledge and seamanship from 2 forums, this is one of them.

I am happy to share what I have learned with others, who have done the same for me.

Going forward, we all here hope you can and will do the same.

BEST!

RWS
1983 10 Meter SOLD after 21 years of adventures
Yanmar diesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner
Survived Andrew Cat 5,Eye of Charley Cat 4, & Irma Cat 2
Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

WEBSITE & SITELOCK TOTALLY SELF FUNDED
kallen
Sporadic User
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:48 pm
Location: Ivy lee, ontario,canada

Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by kallen »

Have a survey done. Then make a decision. I think you have already figured out what the normal expenses will be for a boating season.Then you can budget for any repairs you want to do. No one has said RUN. When I had a survey done 21 years ago there were 3 pages of deficiency's after reading the survey 80% were little things that I corrected. The only big one was the stringers were soft.This was addressed when the vessel was delivered to my marina. The purchase price was renegotiated to cover the cost of stringer replacement. Had another survey done the next spring by a different surveyor and every that I corrected passed.The insurance company was very pleased. Some of the original deficiency's had no bearing on the integrity of the boat ( Life jackets,flares,Sink drain plug missing. I think the surveyor would have put that a ash tray was full if there had been one). So if you feel comfortable with your decision. Go for it.
rickalan35
Moderate User
Posts: 790
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:37 pm
Location: smiths falls, ontario, canada

Swampman's Questions

Post by rickalan35 »

Taking a poll on this thread by swampman Lock it ? Delete it ? leave it be ? Is he a troll ?

Swampman's position is unique from the perspective of his extremely low purchase price. When he takes his purchase price into consideration he has very little to lose except the time and effort he decides to put forth working on this project. He likes boats, this is not his first boat and if the boat turns into too big a project to actually finish he can just say, "Oh well, I tried and I had some fun doing what I like." He claims to be a redneck so he might even throw in a, "The Hell with it."

So we probably don't need to continue with the "Get A Survey" advice. We've done that in spades.

Swampman, I assume that in an '83 Tricabin, the engines were not V-Drives and were located amidships thereby eliminating the problem of a hot bedroom after cruising (no pun intended). I also don't know what Trojan had decided to do by 1983 regarding heads. My 1974 had those original airline heads and I couldn't get rid of them soon enough.

Well do I remember fondly, that first morning after being out overnight on anchor, getting out of bed and using the new vacuflush, then showering with lots of hot water (gave the Kohler generator five minutes to start warming things up), followed by shaving in front of the sink with hot water, then walking out to the galley and boiling the coffee water............ it was grand, sitting up in the cockpit looking around and sipping that cup of java. This had all occurred because I'd replaced the old steel fresh water tank with a new plexiglass unit, installed a new and larger hot water tank, replaced the plumbing and water pump, installed a new exhaust manifold on the generator and obviously also installed the vacuflush unit. Now, here's what we all have in common: Was it worth all the work? Damn right.
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters
swampman
Registered user
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:54 pm

Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by swampman »

kallen wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:25 am Have a survey done. Then make a decision. I think you have already figured out what the normal expenses will be for a boating season.Then you can budget for any repairs you want to do. No one has said RUN. When I had a survey done 21 years ago there were 3 pages of deficiency's after reading the survey 80% were little things that I corrected. The only big one was the stringers were soft.This was addressed when the vessel was delivered to my marina. The purchase price was renegotiated to cover the cost of stringer replacement. Had another survey done the next spring by a different surveyor and every that I corrected passed.The insurance company was very pleased. Some of the original deficiency's had no bearing on the integrity of the boat ( Life jackets,flares,Sink drain plug missing. I think the surveyor would have put that a ash tray was full if there had been one). So if you feel comfortable with your decision. Go for it.
Although I totally understand the value of a survey when making a purchase of a complex item like a boat , im having a hard time with justification of it in this case when it would cost a third of what im paying for the boat , I know its a fixer upper and I have , I believe , a good idea of what to look for in general and understand im getting into a lot of work . What im looking for is real world common sense advice from people who have been in my situation and have a similar mindset . The info about no coring in the hull or transom was something I was looking for . Creative solutions to problems that this model may be prone too. One question I have that would be a major concern is possible stringer issues . They seem solid but look like they are heavy in glass as well . My thought is , this does not look like a model that would be prone to stringer rot unless there was a major buildup of water in the hold . The fact that the engines are as far above the keel as they are seem like they have some protection from small amounts of water that would migrate to the bilge. Is this correct thinking on the matter or is there something im missing . ive considered going back and pulling some bolts from the stringers , I believe this is the only area im really scared of finding something hidden that would be more than I want to take on ..any advice or first hand experience on this matter with this model would be appreciated .
rickalan35
Moderate User
Posts: 790
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:37 pm
Location: smiths falls, ontario, canada

Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by rickalan35 »

You said: They seem solid but look like they are heavy in glass as well . My thought is , this does not look like a model that would be prone to stringer rot unless there was a major buildup of water in the hold

I agree. Trojan probably laid down more fiberglass "roving" around stringers and corner posts than almost any other manufacturer. In the tricabin, that solid fiberglass hull and plus the heavily roving overlay contribute greatly to the general confidence level about the probability of dry stringers. The nature of your question is going to bring forth more calls for a survey. The annoying thing here though, is that moisture meters can be tricky instruments in my experience. Less tricky in this case though due to the solid hull. I don't 100% trust the moisture readings, especially with a cored hull. I was told by a very experienced surveyor that all hulls have moisture intrusion to some extent.

As I had mentioned to you in an earlier post, I have read that the heavy extent of fiberglass roving around the stringers in Trojans rendered them stronger due to the roving than the original wood framing itself.

So, when I bought my current boat, I had to do so sight unseen because of the distance involved. But I hired and paid for two surveyors a week apart and after receiving permission from the broker I had the second guy enter the bilge and drill two holes in the stringers and also two in the hull itself to test for moisture content and to double down on my question as to whether the hull was solid or cored (my boat is a 1994 and cored hulls were common in that era). The holes were then repaired using the West System. Perhaps the owner will let you do something similar.
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters
User avatar
prowlersfish
2024 Gold Support
2024 Gold Support
Posts: 12645
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:56 pm
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay ,Va

Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by prowlersfish »

A good trained ear can tap on the stringers to get a good idea and drill as need to check ( with the owner ok ) and fill with epoxy regardless of condition and regardless if you buy or not . You said you found a cracked block that had been repaired , if the seller did not disclose tis what else is he not telling you ?
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
swampman
Registered user
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:54 pm

Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by swampman »

prowlersfish wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:55 am A good trained ear can tap on the stringers to get a good idea and drill as need to check ( with the owner ok ) and fill with epoxy regardless of condition and regardless if you buy or not . You said you found a cracked block that had been repaired , if the seller did not disclose tis what else is he not telling you ?
I might wonder the same , but i know the owner as i am a repair tech for police vehicles and he is a retired state trooper , and based on my skillset vs his i would tend to believe i know more about the boat in the few hours ive spent crawling through it than he does . Obviously ive not had time to evaluate every component and system , but i think i like have a much better grasp of the issues than he did when he bought the boat for 14k a few years ago . He acknowledged the block was cracked but considered the epoxy a valid repair , i don't . He believes he has the deck leak fixed by sealing the teak rail where it meets the deck . I believe the cracking in this area is a result of the rail stantions needing to be rebedded and the cracking that has been sealed is a symptom not a root cause . He has told me what he knows and i understand why someone thats not extremely knowledgeable in such things would come to conclusions as he has . My thoughts on the issues are somewhat different and i hope more correctly aligned with what should be done to correct them .
User avatar
WayWeGo
2024 Gold Support
2024 Gold Support
Posts: 782
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:13 am
Location: Oakton, VA / Rhode River - Chesapeake Bay

Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by WayWeGo »

The F boats tend to float slightly bow down, so bilge water runs towards the front of the boat. Our F-36 has one soft spot in a stringer next to the transom and I know of another that had exactly the same problem. If you want to check this area, it is the inner stringer on the port side right where it intersects the transom. Both of these boats were convertibles, so I don't know if this applies to a tri cabin or if you can even access that area.
1975 F-36 Convertible
Twin Chrysler 440's
mikeandanne
Moderate User
Posts: 628
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:30 am

Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by mikeandanne »

So here is my advice at this point. Pay a surveyor who knows what he is doing to check only the stringers and bulkheads for you, that could not cost that much, certainly don't need any inventory of lifejackets et al. If not , you could easily put in a years work and my educated guess about 15k on the low side. So at this point life happens and the boat has to go. Now at this point you have your labor and the 15k considering you get the boat for free.
Consider this....Next step is first buyer really likes the boat, you did a great job, his surveyor finds , you guessed it rotten stringers/bulkheads, at this point the boat is now worth zero, cant give it away. Considering this now how much would the 500 bucks have been worth. Got to have a good solid hull for any restoration, period, just make sure and all the work you do will make sense, not just a quest.
This really has nothing to do with how Trojan built boats, they are solid, but again they are all different because they were owned by different people, the one I had, had new stringers in it ( cost the guy a pile of money that he never got back out). You can never tell over the years as has been said.

Good luck man, I hope it works out and we get to see all the upgrades as they happen....Mike
User avatar
RWS
Ultimate User
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:01 am
Location: West Coast Florida
Contact:

Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by RWS »

I know a guy that bought a tricabin for a song

He spent 3 years, fixed it up, replaced one engine, and made a beautiful boat to enjoy

Now that he's got the hardest work behind him, he's invested about $10,000 total and lots of sweat equity.

The boat is operable and he's enjoying it on a regular basis.

The problem he now has is a vibration on the starboard side.

The engine and propeller shaft keep falling out of alignment

Sadly he discovered the reason - one stringer is going bad

The cost to repair is off the charts

What advice should I give him?


RWS
1983 10 Meter SOLD after 21 years of adventures
Yanmar diesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner
Survived Andrew Cat 5,Eye of Charley Cat 4, & Irma Cat 2
Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

WEBSITE & SITELOCK TOTALLY SELF FUNDED
Post Reply