Really stupid question

[Allen Sr]

I am new to the forum but reading this topic you guys are scaring me. I have the same type pump in the v-berth, port side. Upon investigating an ODOR problem and reparing a busted vent line I found this pump is connected to my holding tank. By the way I own a 1984 F36 convertible. Previous owners have done a few modifications, some I don't agree with but thats open to further discussion later.

[rbcool]

Welcome Allen
Please share the other problems, might help some of us.

[alexander38]

Yes Welcome aboard.. now pull out your wallet put your money on the desk lay down on the lounge sofa and tell us your troubles, its what owning an old boat is about.
Keep an open mind here you'll get alot of good info and help.

[rickalan35]

My manual pump is located in the salon area of my TriCabin and not in the V-bunk area. It's cleverly wedged into the front right immediate corner of the large locker across from the entrance to the front head. This is the same locker that stretches under the front L of the setee. They must have changed the location in the later models.

I originally disconnected mine and used the thru hull outlet fitting to pipe out the water from my first and second air conditioning units. Both failures as you may recall from past whining.

Rick

[rickalan35]

Allen Sr - Manual Pump connected to the holding tank!!! Oh Baby.

You might want to check to see where the sink drain is headed. Hopefully not to the fresh water tank.

[Allen Sr]

No not the fresh water tank!They took the wiring marked for head and connected it to a macerator pump to a thru hull (has a cut off valve turned off!!!!) fitting. The head is wired to my fresh water pump circuit! Go figure?I have been reading this forum since I purchased the boat and yes it has been extremely helpful and knowledgable. Inspite of some of the characters on here, much like a set of directions my wife downloaded for me a few years back when I hand to replace a lower shift cable on our 23' chris craft. Only problem was they called for a drunk guy to be up in the boat that case of beer didn't last long!

[prowlersfish]

Welcome to the Fourm

[rossjo]

The USCG requires both a Manual Bilge Pump and a Power Bilge Pump on vessels our size.

Of course, they couldn't make it less clear, but look at § 182.520 Bilge pumps. & TABLE 182.520(a)

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/ ... 82.520.pdf

TABLE 182.520(a) (just the part pertaining to boats our size)

• > "Number of passengers: Not more than 49 passengers (Other than ferry vessels)."
  > "Length of vessel: 7.9 m, 26 feet up to 19.8 m (65 ft)."
  > "Bilge pumps required: 1 fixed power pump and 1
  portable hand pump 38 LPM (10 GPM) OR: 1 fixed hand pump 38 LPM (10 GPM) AND 1 portable hand pump 19 LPM (5 GPM)."

§ 182.520 Bilge pumps.
(a) A vessel must be provided with
bilge pumps in accordance with Table
182.520(a). A second power pump is an
acceptable alternative to a hand pump
if it is supplied by a source of power
independent of the first power bilge
pump. Individual power pumps used for
separate spaces are to be controlled
from a central control point and must
have a light or other visual means at
the control point to indicate operation.
(b) A portable hand bilge pump must
be:
(1) Capable of pumping water, but not
necessarily simultaneously, from all
watertight compartments; and
(2) Provided with suitable suction
hose capable of reaching the bilge of
each watertight compartment and discharging
overboard.
(c) Each fixed power bilge pump must
be self priming. It may be driven off
the main engine or other source of
power. It must be permanently connected
to the bilge manifold and may
also be connected to the fire main. If of
sufficient capacity, a power bilge pump
may also serve as a fire pump.
(d) Where two fixed power bilge
pumps are installed, they must be driven
by different sources of power. If one
pump is driven off the main engine in a
single propulsion engine installation,
the other must be independently driven.
In a twin propulsion engine installation,
each pump may be driven off a
different propulsion engine.
(e) A submersible electric bilge pump
may be used as a power bilge pump required
by Table 182.520(a) only on a vessel
of not more than 19.8 meters (65
feet) in length carrying not more than
49 passengers, other than a ferry, provided
that:
(1) The pump is listed by Underwriters’
Laboratories Inc. or another
independent laboratory;
(2) The pump is used to dewater not
more than one watertight compartment;
(3) The pump is permanently mounted;
(4) The pump is equipped with a
strainer that can be readily inspected
and cleaned without removal;
(5) The pump discharge line is suitably
supported;
(6) The opening in the hull for the
pump discharge is placed as high above
the waterline as possible;
(7) A positive shutoff valve is installed
at the hull penetration; and
(8) The capacity of the electrical system,
including wiring, and size and
number of batteries, is designed to
allow all bilge pumps to be operated simultaneously.
(f) A flexible tube or hose may be
used instead of fixed pipe for the discharge
line of a submersible electric
bilge pump provided the hose or tube
does not penetrate any required watertight
bulkheads and is:
(1) Of good quality and of substantial
construction, suitable for the intended
use; and
(2) Highly resistant to salt water, petroleum
oil, heat, and vibration.
(g) If a fixed hand pump is used to
comply with Table 182.520(a), it must
be permanently connected to the bilge
system.
(h) On a vessel of not more than 19.8
meters (65 feet) in length, a power driven
fire pump required by § 181.300 of
this chapter may serve as a fixed power
bilge pump required by this subpart,
provided it has the minimum flow rate
required by Table 182.520(a).
(i) On a vessel of more than 19.8 meters
(65 feet) in length, a power driven
fire pump required by § 181.300 of this
subchapter may serve as one of the two
fixed power bilge pumps required by
this subpart, provided:
(1) The bilge and fire pump systems
are interconnected;
(2) The dedicated bilge pump is capable
of pumping the bilges at the same
time the fire/bilge pump charges the
firemain; and
(3) Stop valves and check valves are
installed in the piping to isolate the
systems during simultaneous operation
and prevent possible flooding through
the bilge system.
(j) A catamaran vessel must be
equipped with bilge pumps for each
hull, as if each hull is a separate vessel,
in accordance with Table 182.520(a), except
where:
(1) One dedicated pump is located in
each hull;
(2) Each dedicated pump is driven by
an independent source of power; and
(3) The bilge system is permanently
cross connected between hulls.

[k9th]

Welcome to the forum Allen.

[Stripermann2]

I am new to the forum but reading this topic you guys are scaring me. I have the same type pump in the v-berth, port side. Upon investigating an ODOR problem and reparing a busted vent line I found this pump is connected to my holding tank. By the way I own a 1984 F36 convertible. Previous owners have done a few modifications, some I don't agree with but thats open to further discussion later.

Allen, the pump you describe is from the factory. It transfers waste from the toilet holding tank, the one which is, or was, under the toilet originally.
Takes the 9 gallons or so and transfers it to the v-berth tank.

The v-berth tank will have a pump out hose up to the deck fitting. The macerator is indeed located at bottom of tank, which goes to the overboard discharge.

If you've upgraded the head and eliminated that POS pre-holding tank, you can eliminate the manual pump in the locker as a new toilet macerator will handle the flush to the v-berth tank. Hope this helps.

[Allen Sr]

Thanks for the info Jamie. It helps a great deal. When prior owners did/had the upgrade done they didn't eliminate the manual pump. Semi sh***y job on the upgrade plumbing. They kept the old black sewage line in going towards the stern then put a close nipple in to the updated white sewage hose going back forward to the pump and holding tank.About 6-8ft of excess sewage hose for no reason. Once again thanks.Another one for the winter list!

[prowlersfish]

Jammie I beg to differ as the F36 did not have a holding tank under the v berth like the F32 , mine only had the tank under the head and over board near the water tank.

[Stripermann2]

Paul, I am familiar with the 70's era F36's plumbing of it's head system. Again, we are discussing a mid 80's F36.
I should have said, Allen, my set-up, which is factory, is very similar to the description of your head, transfer pump and holding tank.

After inquiring with John at Marine Tech, he said it was very possible that Trojan may have installed that set-up to accomodate their dealer's requests for specific holding tank requirements, Great Lakes and Canadian protocols, for example. ...Remember, legislative enviromental concerns grew rapidly back then.

So yes, it may have been factory, such as installed by Trojan. Or added by a Trojan dealer at the request of the original purchaser...or simply added after purchase by a subsequent owner. A HIN may show what was added or installed...

[prowlersfish]

Right we are disusing a F36 Not a F32 . A frend with a mid 80s F36 had the same set up as mine

But there where many options , so anything is posable

[Allen Sr]

lets not fight over me guys!lol you are both right from what I have seen. It apparently came with the set up Paul was talking about caause that explains a discontinued thru haul at the rear of the head, and some one had it converted to the system with the mnual pump and holding tank under the v-berth mattress. Either way the tank is to small and I need to find a way to install a larger tank or add another one to the existing system if thats possible?