Zinc Additive or Racing Oil?

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The Dog House
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Zinc Additive or Racing Oil?

Post by The Dog House »

When I winterized my 1971 Chrysler 318 in September, I changed the oil and put Castrol GTX in it. Since then, I read that the new SM oils do not have enough ZDDP in them which will damage flat tappet engines like mine. Since I already have changed the oil, I purchased a bottle of ZDDPlus to add to the Castrol GTX in the Spring to increase the level of ZDDP in the oil. This should get me through next season.

When I winterize my engine next year, I need to decide if I'm going to use a "regular" oil with a zinc additive or a racing oil with zinc already in the formulation. Brad Penn racing oils have ZDDP already in the formulation, but also have a lower level of detergent in them. The cost for the Castrol GTX plus ZDDPlus would be $50.00 ($5.00 per quart x 7 plus $15.00 for the ZDDPlus). The cost of the Brad Penn racing oil would be $59.00, so there isn't any significant cost difference.

Does anybody have experience using the ZDDP additives or racing oils? I'm a little concerned about the lower level of detergents in the racing oils, but like the idea of the ZDDP being blended in at the factory. Thanks for any thoughts you might have.
1993 Sea Ray 200 Overnighter OB with 1993 Mercury 150 hp Outboard
1979 Starcraft 14' Rowboat with 2011 Mercury 9.9 hp Outboard
Former boat: 1971 Trojan F26
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Post by 7421f »

I just went through this dilemma, so I will share what I learned. I had a complete re-build of my starboard engine (big blue 454) in July. My machine shop made it very clear that I would have no warranty if I did not use their break in oil which was Brad Penn, and after the break in period, that if I used any brand of engine oil that had an "SN" or "SM" rating without using a zinc additive that maintained proper ZDDP levels. So, I asked specifically what oil to use after the break in period and was told to use Delo 400 15w-40 or Rotella 15w-40 with Red Line Engine Oil Break-In Additive ($12.95 and treats 12 quarts). I found both Delo and Rotella are $12.95 per gallon at Wally World today. I can change both my engines oil for about $50.00. Not a bad deal and my warranty stays intact. I trust my machine shop as they have been in business for 35 years specializing in marine engines and have an impeccable reputation. Hope this helps......
Tim
1984 Trojan 11 Meter Express "My Vixen"
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Post by prowlersfish »

I would Use a name brand 15w-40 or 30W HD , I don't feel the need for adding zinc , I have not seen a increase in camshafts failing with reduce zinc in oil. With that said it won't hurt to use a zinc additive . But I do use a zinc additive for break in and have for the past almost 40 years . ( GM EOS )


I would only use a oil that meets SAE specs
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Post by The Dog House »

The API standard for SM and SN oils requires a minimum of 0.06% phosphorous and a maximum of 0.08% phosphorous. I'm glad the SN oil did not eliminate phosphorous altogether, but 0.06% is still pretty low. The link to the API standard is

http://www.api.org/certification-progra ... dards.aspx
1993 Sea Ray 200 Overnighter OB with 1993 Mercury 150 hp Outboard
1979 Starcraft 14' Rowboat with 2011 Mercury 9.9 hp Outboard
Former boat: 1971 Trojan F26
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Post by The Dog House »

I had a helpful conversation with a technical representative from Brad Penn oil. He stated that although the Brad Penn Penn-Grade 1 High Performance motor oils do not carry the API symbol, the detergent additives and performance of the oil is equivalent to the API SJ detergent package. The Penn-Grade 1 High Performance motor oils are not racing oils.

My concern with using the Brad Penn Penn-Grade 1 High Performance motor oils was regarding the detergent package. Now that I know the detergent package is equivalent to the API SJ detergent package, I plan on using Brad Penn Penn-Grade 1 oil at my next oil change. Now the question is do I replace the Castrol GTX oil in the Spring before I launch or wait until the Fall. Also, do I use the ZDDP additive I purchased and if so, do I add it gradually or all at once. The Brad Penn representative was concerned about adding the ZDDP additive all at once, since the local ZDDP concentration would be very high until it was mixed thoroughly. I'm sure he is a little biased, but it is a valid point. My engine does burn some oil, so I might mix small amounts of the ZDDP additive with the oil I add over the season instead of all at once. This should minimize the local, high concentration issue. Who would have thought running a 41 year old boat would be so complicated!
1993 Sea Ray 200 Overnighter OB with 1993 Mercury 150 hp Outboard
1979 Starcraft 14' Rowboat with 2011 Mercury 9.9 hp Outboard
Former boat: 1971 Trojan F26
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Post by hmc »

iF DON'T say api spec on the can I woild not trust it they can say what the wantt , BUT THE PROF is in the test , use da zink and a good oil not a fanncy racing oil .


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Post by prowlersfish »

As adding the additive don't worry , It will mix right away when you start it , If you really worried then pour it in slowly at idle speed . As far as Brad Penn , I agree will the post above , I want prof it meets the specs of API. Not just their say so . I would feel much better using a name brand oil with or without the additive

I have been doing a lot of research on zinc and 99% of there info is from the people that sell it , so I don't put much faith in their info . Todays oils are better imo , it was rare to see cars over 100k miles but now its common to see them go 200-300k and more with out engine issues ( many with out roller lifters /cam followers . I believe the oil is a big part. I am not saying not to use it , But I wonder if its needed .

I wonder what Jamies or Mike K. take is on this


.
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Post by prowlersfish »

Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
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Post by The Dog House »

The Petroleum Quality Institute of America performs independent testing of motor oils. The URL for their database is

http://www.pqiamerica.com/database.html

Excellent information on the properties of the oils, including the phosphorous and zinc content.
1993 Sea Ray 200 Overnighter OB with 1993 Mercury 150 hp Outboard
1979 Starcraft 14' Rowboat with 2011 Mercury 9.9 hp Outboard
Former boat: 1971 Trojan F26
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Post by prowlersfish »

interesting site , one thing I noticed is in the case of store brands vs name brand oil , the store brands I checked had 0 Molly , but the name brands did have it . ( did not check them all ) . So when a store tell youn there oil is made by brand X , that dose not mean its the same oil . I always stayed away from store brands and stuck to the name brands. Glad I did .

The only thing I don't like about the site is it only lists 5w-30 and 10w-30 '
Not really what we should be using ( maybe in cold weather) but still a lot of good info .

Thanks for the site
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
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I forgot how much this place makes my brain bleed! :P
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The Dog House
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Post by The Dog House »

The years and zinc/phosphorous limits for the API classifications are:

API S Classification by Year

SM newer than 2004
SL 2004 and older
SJ 2001
SH 1996
SG 1995
SF 1988
SE 1979
SD 1971
SC 1967
SB 1951
SA 1930

API S Classification Zinc and Phosphorous Limits

Grade Zinc, Phos
SM MAX 800
SL/SJ 1000-1400
SH 1000-1400
SG 1000-1400
SF 1000-1400
SE 1000-1200
SD 1000-1200
SC 1000-1200
SB 1000
SA 0

When my 1971 LM318 was designed, the maximum phosphorous limit was 1200 ppm. When I use an additive, I'm going to mix to this concentration (taking in to account the 700 ppm of phosphorous already in the SN oil).
1993 Sea Ray 200 Overnighter OB with 1993 Mercury 150 hp Outboard
1979 Starcraft 14' Rowboat with 2011 Mercury 9.9 hp Outboard
Former boat: 1971 Trojan F26
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Post by Mike Kulp »

Okay so we are discussing oil again, this topic is kind of like ford versus chevy or crusader versus mercruiser, I will tell you I am not so much caught up on weights and zinc content as i am on a quality oil. I have used 10w40, 10w30, 15w40 penzoil and castrol products some dino oil some synthetic blends and have put 800 hours on my motors and never noticed a difference, I will tell you why have used so many different weights and kinds of oil it is not because i research this it is because what ever I had the most of on my shelf I would use so i did not have to listen to my wife complain about where the oil went, this year i am going to run a Castrol full synthetic 10w40 why because I have 4 cases on the shelf I ordered in for 2 customers who did not return and it has been there for years ( How is that for being technical ). So my Castrol rep was in this morning and I asked him about this topic here where some of his answers #1 Brad Penn oil is a good oil they use to make Kendall Green for you old race car guys #2 as of 2011 they have taken more zink and phosphurus out of olds mandated by the government ( zink is harmful to catalytic convertors ) #3 even your diesel oils are haveing the zink removed if you are running 15w40 diesel it needs a CI4 or CI4+ rating #5 Your oil should be a GF3 or GF4 rating to have zink and my rep told me if it does not have that you should probably add zink if you are running a flat tappet camshaft. So I will check the rating on my synthetic 10w40 and possibly add zinc but maybe I will forget are get lazy and not. My recommendation use good quality oil, change it every season, keep up on maintence and you will probably never notice a difference, so there is my two cents on the subject. :)
Mike 1986 10 Meter mid cabin
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Post by Lawman »

I was using Valvoline VR1 20w50 for high zinc content (1400 ppm) , but at $6 a quart, that's $72 not including filters (2 motors).I think I'm going to go with either Delo or Delvac that equals $36 for three gallons with equal amount of zinc. :!: Anyone have a recommendation between the two ??
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The Dog House
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Post by The Dog House »

My currrent thinking is using Valvoline VR-1 racing oil. From what I've read on the internet, the VR-1 racing oil is identical to the Valvoline API SN oil except it has a higher zinc/phosphorous content. Valvoline claims the VR-1 racing oil meets the API SH rating. I need to actually hold a bottle of VR-1 in my hand and read the label before I decide for sure that's the oil I'm going to run. The cost will be about the same as using an API SN oil plus an additive.
1993 Sea Ray 200 Overnighter OB with 1993 Mercury 150 hp Outboard
1979 Starcraft 14' Rowboat with 2011 Mercury 9.9 hp Outboard
Former boat: 1971 Trojan F26
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