10 Meter Winterizing Question

[jhalb]

How much antifreeze will I need to run through my 454s. What keeps water from getting in the exhaust holes and freezing?

[BarryL]

Are you winterizing while in the water? leaving it in the water for the winter?

Last week when I brought mine over for haul out I closed the sea strainers for each engine, disconnected the intake hose from the strainer, filled a 5 gallon bucket with non toxic antifreeze, placed the intake hose into the anti freeze and ran the original 5 gallons and 2 more for good measure. Tested the anti freeze as it exited the boat until it was good to 30 below. called it done.

this was all done with the boat still in the water to take advantage of the engines being up to temp and the thermostats open.

SPECIAL NOTE: this was with a hot engine and open thermostats. if your engine isn't hot enough to open thermostats you will get anti-freeze out the exhaust but still have plenty of fresh water in the block to do a LOT of damage.

Don't ask me how I know about damage occurred because thermostats didn't open....

Barry

[Lawman]

That's exactly what I do, five gallons seams to do it. Then again I have a closed loop system with green stuff in the motors. What ever you do, make sure that the RV antifreeze you use has no alcohol in it, it can eat your rubber impellers. The stuff without alcohol usually has rust inhibitors as well.

[Big D]

Please tell me you guys drain all the raw water first before running antifreeze through!! Closed cooling or not, you must drain all raw water to minimize dilution. There is no garranty that all the water in the block will be replaced with antifreeze 100%. The engines do not need to be warmed up as all marine t-stats have by-passes and will fill the block (raw water cooled) anyway even when cold. This allows it to be done out of the water. To be sure, after running the engine, pull the drain plugs just long enough to check for antifreeze. Not draining the water first is a sure way to be surprised in the Spring. I know this all too well, it keeps me busy with other people's boats at that time of year $$$. Just sayn'

[prowlersfish]

No need drain the water Big D But you need to use about 50 gals of the stuff ,

[Big D]

No need drain the water Big D But you need to use about 50 gals of the stuff ,

Or that!

[BobCT]

With FWC (which the Crusaders are), no need to worry about thermostat or engine temp.

As long as it's bright pink coming out the exhaust you're good to go. I use about 5 gallons to do both engines.


Bob

[Big D]

With FWC (which the Crusaders are), no need to worry about thermostat or engine temp.....As long as it's bright pink coming out the exhaust you're good to go.....

+1
I agree, as long as the raw water circuit has been drained first.

[BobCT]

I don't do that other than draining the strainers first. That just saves me a little of the pink stuff. As long as it's as pink coming out the exhaust as it is in the container then you know it's not diluted (or close enough)....

[Big D]

I don't do that other than draining the strainers first. That just saves me a little of the pink stuff. As long as it's as pink coming out the exhaust as it is in the container then you know it's not diluted (or close enough)....

Close is right, but is it good enough? I just wouldn't chance it for the amount of time it takes to drain everything, seen too many go wrong. Every Spring in this and other marine forums, we answer the same questions about why blocks and manifolds cracked over the winter. If you want to save "pink stuff", drain all the water and you'll use much less because you won't have to worry about it diluting! In some cases, if you've drained properly, you don't have to wait until it comes out the exhaust; a difference in the way the exhaust sounds is an indicator that pink is about to come out. It will only be pink because all the water has been drained - less pink used.

"As long as it's pink coming out....then you know it's not diluted...." I wouldn't say that. I am pretty familiar with the dye that is used to tint the clear non-tox antifreeze. It doesn't take much but once the dye is added, you'de be surprised how much water it actually takes to make a noticeable visual difference when it's coming out of an exhaust port. In fact, I took 500 liters (132 gal) of pink and mixed it the same amount of clear non-tox. My only concern before doing this was that I wouldn't be able to tell if antifreeze or water was coming out of the block when probing. After mixing, I poured some from the mixed container into a glass and compared it to a glass from an original 1000 liter container of pink; I couldn't tell the difference between the two. That's at a 1:1 ratio. If 50% were to be water (or less), your block is toast. I would never trust that it is 100% antifreeze unless the water was first drained. In a fresh water cooled system, I wouldn't trust that the circulation in the manifolds was such that the antifreeze pushed all the water out of all passages and that what was left was just pink at rated protection, especially since you get pink out the exhaust much quicker in FWC systems.

In some of our older applications the problem with not draining is compounded. Though this example doesn't apply to our Trojans, it does apply to some that may be reading this thread; older Chris Crafts for example have t-stats in thier exhaust manifolds. I had to replace a manifold of this type for an owner who did as mentioned here by simply warming the engine, not draining, running the engine until pink came out. Worked fine for him for years until the t-stat in that manifold failed. Pink still came out but not enough water displaced in the manifold. Could just as easily have been the block. At least if the manifold were drained, it may not have filled with pink, but it wouldn't have cracked either. Guess who doesn't do it that way anymore?

Hey we all do what has worked for us in the past, I'm just putting my thoughts out there based on what I've come across over the years, and a clean winterizing record of a few thousand units. We also need to remember that others with different applications than us read these threads through subject searches on the web. The safest recommendation we can make for all applications is to drain everything first. It's what today's OEMs advise.

[prowlersfish]

I agree with Big D , a added bonus is there will be less rust / corrosion with more pure antifreeze .especially in salt water areas

[Big D]

..... What keeps water from getting in the exhaust holes and freezing?

Not exactly sure what you're reffering to John. If you're talking about the exhaust ports of the manifold, unless there is an issue with the manifold, or a couple of other conditions that may cause water to get in there, the water and exhaust passages are separate and you shouldn't be getting water in there.

[Allen Sr]

Or everyone could just move to Cozumel and not have to worry about the pink diluting at all! Drain before refilling......its not worth the risk for 5 more minutes work!

[jhalb]

..... What keeps water from getting in the exhaust holes and freezing?

Not exactly sure what you're reffering to John. If you're talking about the exhaust ports of the manifold, unless there is an issue with the manifold, or a couple of other conditions that may cause water to get in there, the water and exhaust passages are separate and you shouldn't be getting water in there.

I will drain and am leaving in the river. My neighbor just bought a bubbler this year and I should benefit from this. The exhaust ports are half way under water and wondering what would keep it from deleting the pink over time and freezing if we had a bad winter. 5 gallons per motor? I just want to have enough on hand.

[Big D]

I see now. You will have water in the exhaust tubes up to the water line. This will not get to the engine as the tubes go uphill. I would however be concerned if the mufflers are partially below the water line as some are (in-line). In that case, you will always have water in the mufflers too that will not be agitated. As long as the water is moving around the boat, the exhaust ports shouldn't freeze. As for the water futher up the tube that may not see much agitation, perhaps someone here that bubbles the same model can pitch in. Do you leave a marine bilge heater going all winter long too?