Boat Handling and POD systems

[todd brinkerhoff]

I don't want to be one of those people who fails to recognize the value of technology, but I'm wondering where the continual advancement is "driving aids" will effect the future of overall boat handling and seamanship skills.

I've always prided myself on my boat handling skills. I grew up around water, always driving boats. I would spend hours "messing around" trying to get myself into out of tight areas. I then went into the Coast Guard and became a Boatswain's mate and Coxswain, where we would spend countless hours on boat handling skills. I spent time on the Niagara River where we would rescue people off the cliffs from the fast moving water, keeping the boat "on station" while we transferred people and patients to and from the boat.

So, at the docks, I enjoy seeing people who have skills at boat handling and those who are new. But now, there is a growing number of boats with the POD systems. Several of the owners have never even owned or operated a boat before, yet bring these boats in to the docks like they have years of experience. What kills me is they glow with pride with their achievements.

So the question in this...What is this going to do with people needing to learn boat handling skills? Planes fly themselves, but pilots still need to know how to fly the plane without electronics. These boater are not given that same skillset.

Maybe I'm being grumpy because it took me 30 years to do what they did on their first day of having a boat.

[prowlersfish]

I feel the same way , Some folks never get to fully understand how to handle a boat , and of course some have their excuses .( blame the dock boy LOL ) I guess thats why the pod craze . But honestly they can't have as much fun as us putting our boats in tight places

There are good boat handlers ,there are ones that try , there are excuse makers and now we have poddys

[larryeddington]

I too had the pleasure of learning the art of boat handling at USCG Station Yorktown and on Wormley Creek. I finally after 40 years have a boat and am looking forward to plying the trade again. Prior I have only have run single screws USCG 30 and 31 footers. My F28 is a twin, so on my first outing or two will have an experienced boat handler along. Funny regarding your question my Lincoln MKS will parallel park itself, which is an art I also have mastered through years of driving Police vehicles. The car is more full of toys than anyone needs. But the future demands advances, and some people need them, safer for the rest of us..

[Big D]

The pods are great for making it look easy, but they sure don't change the fact that you still need to learn where you can't/shouldn't go. They learn just as quick as any other boater that a rock does not discriminate, no matter how many joysticks you have

[aaronbocknek]

no one knows sudden pucker factor more than i do. i'm still learning, even though i grew up in and around boats, especially the tri cabin. my slip is tight. very tight. the forward piling, port side, is roughly 24" further into my slip than the rest, and that can make docking a challenge. and one that i'm still not used to. and i will firmly admit, i lack the confidence to do it without making it look like a disaster. thank goodness for mike kulp, as he has, on many occasions, assisted me in docking ENTERPRISE. i plan to make the most out of my weekday off periods to at least take her out more and practice my docking skills. having said that, i had the pleasure of a sea trial onboard a grand banks 41EU roughly 3 years ago. how i was able to finesse that, well, that's a story for another thread, but one i'm happy to share. i loved how i was able to do it. anyway, the 41eu is equipped with cummins mercruiser diesels attached to the zeus pod system. the helm stations (upper and lower) resemble an airbus 320. completely electronic and very intuitive. it's all 'drive by wire'. i don't even want to know the repair costs when something craps out. the seatrial began on a fairly windy day in annapolis. the thing that i noticed the most is how utterly quiet the pod system is as all the exhaust is underwater through the pods. the grand banks rep (and yes, he flew in from seattle just for me and just for this....) instructed me to tap a button on the nav system. this engaged the pods, thrusters, and gps into one system. this is the 'station keeping mode'. now the boat is ready to be untied. i could not believe how simple this was. in the blowing wind, the boat stayed within a few inches of the coordinates as i, by myself, undid all the lines. amazing. switching back into manual mode, the vessel was now ready to port out. the vessel handled like a dream, taking on swells like a champ and the turning radius due to the pods is very tight.
when it came time to dock, we approached the annapolis city dock as a demonstration against the sea wall near two other vessels. again, station keeping was engaged as i got my perspective. upon using the joystick, thrusters and pods engaged, i was able to parallel dock this beautiful grand banks like it was a car. while i will NEVER be able to afford such a fine vessel, the thrill of actually testing out the pod system was a once in a lifetime deal. it made handling very simple and without any stress. if there is an engine failure, the thrusters have a boost system to give added thrust in that event. what i found interesting too is the 'true tracking' using the pods. both pods have duel contrarotating props which zero out any port-starboard wobble. amazing. loved it.

[sehord]

I have run everything from single screws to quad screws and have countless hours on them all. The handling of the boat is more second nature to me than thought process at this point, it just seems to fit like a glove. Although new Pod owners may never have that information or skill, most of the time they will actually never need it. Things do break and then they may be perplexed, but that will be far and few between. For fun I fly private aircraft. My father is also a private pilot and my Grandfather was a pilot for Eastern AIrlines, begining his flying career in the early 30's. I often marvel at his (and all pilots of that era) ability to navigate with mostly open fields and very very limited navigational aids. He past in 2004, and technology even since then has grown so fast, I would love to show him things we take for granted, such as my cell phone, that when I simply tell it an address by talking to it it not only takes me there but tells me there is a wreck ahead on my route and once I arrive it shows me a picture of the house I have arrived at. While we are taught to always plan for failure, electronics have become so reliable that the new era of POD drivers will look good for years to come. And Kudos to them too, because I dont have to worry so much about them slamming into me at the dock!

[RWS]

The world is changing at an exponential rate.

Think about this:

100 years ago, if you were lucky enough to own a car you started it with a CRANK

turned the gas on with a VALVE

set the spark advance with a LEVER

and engaged a leather faced CLUTCH with your foot.

The POD and ZEUS system joystick does eliminate much of the intuitive docking skills that we have all learned.

The problem for these systems is if you take the increased DRAFT and add factor in the tremendous REPAIR COST if you, sorry, WHEN YOU run aground, the POD systems can become an ongoing repair/service issue.

Imagine a pair of PODS in a 30 year old boat.

The cost of repair could scuttle the whole project.

Serious $$$$$$ compared to the value of the vessel.

RWS

[sehord]

But as with most things in boating, upgrading will cost significantly more than the return. My 83' 10 meter has two gas guzzlers as gas was cheap when it was built. If I upgrade it to some nice Yanmars like you have it would cost 6-8 times my boats current value.

[Big D]

The transition from R&D to a final test run was interesting for the engineers at Merc (likely the same at Volvo). Everything looked great on paper but once engaged and asked to maintain a position on its own (option came later for Volvo), it’s said that the engineers on board were thrown around from the jerking of the pods trying to keep their position. Wish I was there! Imagine the look on their faces. After some software and hardware tweaks, and several more test runs, they finally got it to a place where you can barely feel the vessel trying to stay put in calm current/day.

Then of course a bell went off in the Legal Department; what if someone is in or jumps in the water when the vessel is in the mode to maintain a position? Heck, I just want to go for a quick dip so why bother throwing out the anchor when I just have to push this little button! That liability discussion went on for a while ‘cause no matter how smart the vessel is, its overall smarts score depends on how bright the brain behind the wheel is.

All in all a great system. What I find more interesting is Axius where the sterndrives can do the same by operating independent of one another. The thrust vectors needed to accomplish these manoeuvres in conjunction with speed adjustments to mimick the joystick is pretty cool. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks

[RWS]

But as with most things in boating, upgrading will cost significantly more than the return. My 83' 10 meter has two gas guzzlers as gas was cheap when it was built. If I upgrade it to some nice Yanmars like you have it would cost 6-8 times my boats current value.

=-=============================================================================

At the time I did the upgrade, the market value for diesel boats value was far different from today.

With two very tired Crusaders and poorly maintained heat exchangers and other bolt on components, it was not a far leap from the 8.1 Captains Choice to the Yannies especially since I was being urged to change out shafts and raw water intake.

Three years prior I had previously upgraded the genny to Diesel.

With me doing 85% of the work, it was simple math.

That math might not apply in the exact same way today.

RWS

[srokag44]

Speaking of tight slips.... I don't even have a boat length of water in front of mine (the empty slip with the measuring bars in the picture). Sure made me learn pretty quickly how to handle the boat. I think they thought it was funny to give the new guy with his first boat ever the tightest slip in the marina. That was good with me though... I believe in trial by fire. My first ski trail ever was a double black diamond... my friends had a good laugh when we approached the trail at the summit and I asked "what do those two black diamonds mean"?

[summer storm]

In my industry electronics have created some pretty crappy captains. When I started on yachts if you wanted to be a captain on a ocean going vessel you needed to know celestial navigation. It was real simple, you can't DR your way transatlantic and if you didn't have those skills you didn't get the job. Then came Sat nav and GPS, which means if you can plot a Lat and long you are good. I started seeing guys that relied on GPS ( in the beginning) and I would always ask what happens if it craps out, the standard answers was I have two! Electronic chart plotters killed the "art of navigation" and opened up a new breed of yacht captain. I've got deckhands that truly feel they could do my job because they know how to use a computer. The yacht I run is fully electronic, navigation, controls, thusters, stabilizers, even the doors and I am pretty sure I could teach my 10 year old how to dock the boat in about a hour.

Oh, and by the way it's nice to know we have some ex-coasties here. I'm a ex boatswains mate. I trained on the 31's and was a coxswain on the 41's and 43 FCI's out of base Miami Beach chasing the bad guys.

Here is a pic of my bridge

[srokag44]

With all that what do you even need to be on the boat for! Just sit at home on your computer with an uplink to the yacht! Get a few video cameras for views around the boat and you're all set!

[summer storm]

With all that what do you even need to be on the boat for! Just sit at home on your computer with an uplink to the yacht! Get a few video cameras for views around the boat and you're all set!

funny you should say that, I can look up the boats course, speed, and track line from my iphone or a computer anywhere in the world.

check it out

http://www.charteryachtseafarer.com/seafarer-map.html

[The Dog House]

Oh, and by the way it's nice to know we have some ex-coasties here. I'm a ex boatswains mate. I trained on the 31's and was a coxswain on the 41's and 43 FCI's out of base Miami Beach chasing the bad guys.

I'm a retired USCGAUX coxswain. We ran a USCG 21 foot UTB (Chevy 350 with Alpha I drive) out of our SARDET. That boat was fairly slow for the installed drivetrain but was built like a tank. It could also tow just about anything we would ever come across. Having a sterndrive, it did handle much better than my Trojan F26 though. While I love my F26, I would never want to run a USCG patrol using one.