Radar & MFD

[Paul]

Those of you who know my boat also know that I have an overhead console in the cockpit with my electronics installed in it. It has worked our great for several years however my ability to see close up without reading glasses is diminishing. I'm considering making a new console that is set a little farther forward to give me a little more distance from the electronics. I started thinking that this may also be a good time to upgrade the electronics. (or toys as the wife calls them ) The boat does not currently have radar and I'm not that familiar with these systems so I would appreciate all of the input that I can get.

I am a fan of Garmin products so this is naturally where I started looking. (I'm not opposed to info on RayMarine or Furuno) After reviewing the Garmin offerings, I'm thinking that the GMR 18 HD dome unit may be the way to go. I know that it has a 5°beam width compared to the 1.8° of an open array however it's a 5th of the cost and considering that this is a 26' boat, I'm sure that it would fit well on my existing radar arch. The HD version of this unit does also seem to have better definition than the standard version. As for the display, it seems that there are many choices. To fit in the new console, I'm thinking a 7" multi-function display (MFD) would work just fine. I was thinking about a GPS/MAP 720S so that I can overlay the radar over the map and also attach a depth transducer to it. Any thoughts on a better MFD choice? Also, is a marine heading sensor required for this set up?

I'm thinking of possibly starting this project late summer so there's time to think about it. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

[gitchisum]

Paul,

Sounds like you have put some thought into what you want a system to provide you! I am still running components and from different mfg's. I run a JRC 1000 Mk II on my F-26 ( and my Sabre ) which give me up to 16 mile view. I am happy with, and most concerned with target seperation at close range as I primarily troll for Salmon on Lake Michigan. I have tuned this radar for that purpose.

You cannot go wrong with either Garmin or Furuno systems, and the only thing that prevents me from upgrading is my stuff still works!

Multi function displays are the way to go, charts, radar, weather all on one unit. Make sure you don't skimp on size. Go atleast 8" and prefer 10" and up. I run the Lowrance 113cHD for my plotter and love it. (10" )

Best of luck with the new toys, oh I mean New "Safety Tools"!

[comodave]

I have Raymarine on my 2 boats. I have an E120 MFD with a 2 KW 18" radome on my 22' Triumph which we use in Arizona on the lakes and occasionally in San Diego on the Pacific. I have a 2KW HD dome on my F32 which I have not had in the water yet so I can not say how much better the HD will be over the analog dome. I second getting the largest display you can fit and afford. Originally had a C70 display on the Triumph, but when we sold our 46' boat, I moved the E120 to the Triumph. I had to build a new console so that it would fit, but it was well worth it. Having the 12" display is wonderful ( my eyes are not what they used to be either). The 2KW dome does a very good job on the Triumph. It will pick up the no wake buoys that are plastic with a metal structure inside them from at least a half mile. I am going to set up the F32 with Raymarine and have duplicate cabling, etc so that I can move the E120 MFD back and forth each summer since that it the most expensive part. In fact, I ordered the cables yesterday to finish the install on the F32. As to what brand you should get, that is what ever you feel comfortable with and can get a good deal on. Good luck with your boat.

[Jfreeman1412]

Does this mean your old equipment is for sale? If so I am interested. PM me if so! Thanks.

[BlueBelle]

I recently installed 2 Simrad MFDs, an NSS 12 and an NSS7, along with a Simrad 4G radar. The system is outstanding and very competitively priced. There is a ton of good electronics info on the Hulltruth electronics forum.

[prowlersfish]

For radar Nothing beets Furuno . With that said if I was looking for a all in one unit Garmin would be at the top of my list. Their GPSs are great and very user friendly , and the same rolls over into the all in one units . I have Koden all in one But I only use it for radar 99% of the time . I use a Garmin GPS as my main GPS . I just recently replace my gps with a new garmin unit . I looked at the others and I don't feel anyone comes close . So Going with the Garmin IMO would be the best choice . ( and I have a lot of hands on whith many brands)

I would look at the GMR 24 vs the GMR 18 better range ( great for tracking storms)and the 3.6 deg beam will be a big improvement over the 5 deg. ( this goes for any brand) .

[Paul]

Thanks for all of the input gents,

The choices out there are really overwhelming. Unfortunately due to space constraints, it will be a 7" screen. I'm looking at a Garmin 740S which is a stand alone MFD that I believe would make a good addition to my single station boat. P-Dogg also indicated that I may want to wait and get the next generation 741XS version of this unit so it looks like there's still more research to do. At this point if I was to choose a similar unit in another brand, it would be a Raymarine. The Garmin however seems a little more user friendly. A 7" screen will still be an improvement over the 5" screens that I have now shown in the picture below. Although I will be building a new overhead console for this, a console big enough to house a 10"-12" screen will put the bottom edge of it right in my line of vision for the front window. Below is a picture of my existing set up. You'll notice that to the right is an old Uniden Impulse 2830 Loran/Fish Finder. I bought it back in the 80' and it was way ahead of it's time. Notice how there is no glare on the screen compared to the 2 Garmin units next to it which were purchased in the early 2000's. Loran has been out of service for a few years now however I left the Impulse unit in there as a redundant depth sounder. It will now be eliminated as well as the 162 GPSmap however the 240 Blue Fish Finder will now become my redundant depth sounder.



As for the radar, I think that Paul (prowlersfish) is right about the 24" dome vs the 18" dome. It seems that target separation would be greatly improved with a narrower beam. Garmin has a video on this subject that shows the difference. Although the HD versions help definition, it seems that there is no substitute for a narrower angled horizontal beam. They use markers entering a narrow channel as an example. From a distance, the 5° beam shows them as one target where the 1.8° beam from an open array defines them as 2 individual targets. As you get closer the 5° will eventually show them as separate targets. Although the 24" dome is double the cost of the 18"dome, I think it will ultimately boil down to which one I can best fit on the Radar arch.

Also, it seems that I can add more toys to my toys as my wife puts it. Thru NMEA connectors, I'm thinking fuel flow sensor, transducer and possibly AIS (receiver only) If I add the AIS, would it cause too much clutter on a 7" screen?

I'm thinking of possibly starting this project in August and was thinking of taking pics to do a "How To" on the overhead console.

Again thanks for the input gents,

[Big D]

Paul, consider an iPad or the like as an aux screen so you don't clutter the little 7" Many are going that route now as they provide limitless possibilities both on and off your NMEA network. You can put the thing anywhere and by setting up your own wireless network on board, all your NMEA info can be transmited wirelessly, so no wires to the tablet! This way you can add engine and other functions and have them separate from nav info because you will find it to be too much on a 7" screen. And you'll have a toy both you AND the wife can play with If you can get internet, you'll have weather too! I've used an older RL Ramarine display for years but integrated a laptop years ago and I would not go without one now.

[Paul]

Paul, consider an iPad or the like as an aux screen so you don't clutter the little 7" Many are going that route now as they provide limitless possibilities both on and off your NMEA network. You can put the thing anywhere and by setting up your own wireless network on board, all your NMEA info can be transmited wirelessly, so no wires to the tablet! This way you can add engine and other functions and have them separate from nav info because you will find it to be too much on a 7" screen. And you'll have a toy both you AND the wife can play with If you can get internet, you'll have weather too! I've used an older RL Ramarine display for years but integrated a laptop years ago and I would not go without one now.

Now that's cool

[MattSC]

I agree with Prowlerfish regarding the 24" dome 4kw compared to the 18" dome 2kw. I've never really had any issues with target separation and It does come in really handy tracking storms. You shouldn't have an issue mounting the 24" dome on your arch, I have a 24" JRC mounted on my arch without any issues. It is one of the best pieces of equipment I've purchased for the boat.

I have a Raymarine E7D Chartplotter/Fishfinder and am happy with it. It is pretty user friendly, and I can also connect my Ipad and Iphone to the unit via a bluetooth link and use them as a remote screen.

[Paul]

OK Matt, you and Paul have sold me on the 24"dome. Looking at the picture of your boat, that 24" dome seems to fit nicely so I believe that it should work out the same on mine. After some research, this is the system I've chosen. For the MFD, it will be the Garmin 740S GPSMAP along with the BlueChart g2 Vision SD card which enables greater functionality for the plotter. The 7" screen will be an improvement over my existing 5" 162 GPSMAP. This stand alone unit gives me all of the features that I would require and then some and is fairly economical to purchase. I looked at some similar units with an 8.4" screen that were nice however they just wouldn't fit the the limited footprint of the overhead console. The NMEA 2000 on the 740S also allows for the future addition of more sensors (toys) which is a plus in my book. The radar will be a GMR 24 HD which which will be mounted on a custom bracket on the radar arch where my search light is now located. This bracket will place the radar above my television & GPS antenna as well as below the VHF antenna as recommended by Garmin to avoid interference. All of the cables run internally in the forward tube of the arch so my question now becomes if I run the radar cables in the same tube as the GPS antenna, TV antenna and nav light power, will one interfere with the other?



A couple of other changes that will be made at the same time is to swap the search light and mast head light positions. In the above picture, you can see that there's a small mast behind the search light with a flag on it. I will make this mast a little taller and place the new mast head light there above & behind the radar. The search light will be moved to the current factory mast light position. Since I have never had an issue with the factory mast head light, I don't know how the wires have been ran to it. Do they go thru the windshield frame then thru the hard top below the light? Any help with this would be appreciated. I'd like to replace these wires with the harness for the search light.

[prowlersfish]

You should be ok running the cables together , just put one of those clamp on magnets on the cable ( the name escapes me ) for interference .


Glad you chose the 24" . Its so nice to spend other peoples money .

[Big D]

.....the name escapes me....

ferrite core...for noise suppression
Cables these days are pretty well sheilded but if there are power cables (+-) running in there, twisting them together really helps minimize electrical interference problems.

[Paul]

.....the name escapes me....

ferrite core...for noise suppression
Cables these days are pretty well sheilded but if there are power cables (+-) running in there, twisting them together really helps minimize electrical interference problems.

Twisted pair to cancel the noise. Than makes sense Big D.

As for spending my money for me Paul, I pointed out to my wife how important this up grade was and that you highly recommended it. Her reply was . That means that she's in total agreement.

[MattSC]

You can't go wrong with Garmin, they both look like really nice units. The extra 2kw will definitely help punch through in rain and fog. My radar/gps cables run through the rear post of my arch, while my vhf wire runs through the front post. I haven't had any interference issues at all

I don't know how the wires have been ran to it. Do they go thru the windshield frame then thru the hard top below the light? Any help with this would be appreciated. I'd like to replace these wires with the harness for the search light.

My wires for the masthead light were run through the windshield and came out at the base of the masthead light, which was mounted on the windshield frame, yours might different with the hardtop. I had a mount fabricated on the arch for my masthead light. It is removable with two screws so I can lower it for the winter cover. When I mounted the radar, I canted it forward a few degrees with a wedge made out of starboard to keep the radar level while the boat is running.