Cabin wall insulation

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RobertS
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Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:18 am

Re: Cabin wall insulation

Post by RobertS »

I have removed about 6-8 cubic feet of rotten wood. I did not fill any wood that was rotten, I wire brushed and use a sawzall with a long blade to chop out the bad wood, any remaining solid wood around the deck perimeter was dried and epoxied and the plywood/ fiberglass hull top edge is still ventilating/ not filled yet. Air can still flow over any previously rotten, pocketed areas.
I know the big mahogany planks across the stern have some wet in them still. It's a big job.
Any positive comments?
Last edited by RobertS on Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RobertS
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Re: Cabin wall insulation

Post by RobertS »

gettaway wrote:I am curious if you are removing the entire rotted planks and rebuilding stringers and ribs ? it looks from your photos that you have dug out the rot and filled the areas with epoxy.. if so, is that structurally safe? I don't know and I am asking, I know nothing about wood boats
I used the foam mostly to seal and just get the form back, and let the stringers dry, the rain kept getting in while I was fixing. I used 2" x 2" 16ga. stainless caps over the missing spans with a Weicon adhesive. Lots of big SS screws too.

summer storm
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Re: Cabin wall insulation

Post by summer storm »

I'll try to be positive. A for effort but from what I've seen you are not following any basic wooden boat repair guide lines. Foam between the hull and interior walls is a bad idea. It will not allow the wood to breath which is very important. I'm not sure what I am looking at on the transom but it's not a good idea to patch the rotted areas with bondo and plywood. These planks tie in at the joints and keep the hull shape in check. Your deck to hull joint needs to be very strong and tied into the rest of the boat. Patching here and there will not give it the required strength. Just think about the dock and lines pulling and pushing at this all the time.

I think it's great that you are trying to save her but this boat is in need of much more than just cosmetic work. If you are serious about restoring her I recommend you cover her up and let the hull dry out. Remove all the paint on the hull and inspect the wood and fastenings, replace as required. Gain access from the inside and replace or sister any frames that are spent. There are still some good wooden boat books out there and I would read up. I would also start getting "wooden boat" magazine.

Remember, part of the dream is sailing away into the sunset and you will feel much better (and safer) if you know the true condition of the hull.

Just trying to help
Doug

1977 F-32
1982 Chris Craft 280
1992 Boston Whaler 13 Super Sport Limited
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rickalan35
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Re: Cabin wall insulation

Post by rickalan35 »

Robert, as a former Shepherd owner I'm really pleased to see you working on this boat. Good for you. I can so relate to the mystery of wooden boat upkeep and repair.
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters

jimbo36
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Location: Belleville, Ontario

Re: Cabin wall insulation

Post by jimbo36 »

summer storm wrote:I'll try to be positive. A for effort but from what I've seen you are not following any basic wooden boat repair guide lines. Foam between the hull and interior walls is a bad idea. It will not allow the wood to breath which is very important. I'm not sure what I am looking at on the transom but it's not a good idea to patch the rotted areas with bondo and plywood. These planks tie in at the joints and keep the hull shape in check. Your deck to hull joint needs to be very strong and tied into the rest of the boat. Patching here and there will not give it the required strength. Just think about the dock and lines pulling and pushing at this all the time.

I think it's great that you are trying to save her but this boat is in need of much more than just cosmetic work. If you are serious about restoring her I recommend you cover her up and let the hull dry out. Remove all the paint on the hull and inspect the wood and fastenings, replace as required. Gain access from the inside and replace or sister any frames that are spent. There are still some good wooden boat books out there and I would read up. I would also start getting "wooden boat" magazine.

Remember, part of the dream is sailing away into the sunset and you will feel much better (and safer) if you know the true condition of the hull.

Just trying to help
Excellent advice. One important note; on wood boat restoration, whatever rot is viewed outside is usually multiplied several times by the rot inside. "Live and learn" plays a big role here. Continue the way you are going and you will end up with painted s--t. That is as positive as I can get. You are wasting your time and money. :wink:

jimbo36
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Re: Cabin wall insulation

Post by jimbo36 »

Sorry Roberts, I re-read my post and realized it sounded insulting. Just that I have seen folks go this way before much to their frustration. You need to get some advice before spending more money and time on this old woody. :wink:

rickalan35
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Re: Cabin wall insulation

Post by rickalan35 »

Robert, I don't know where exactly you are located in Canada, but if you happen to be in Ontario and especially if you're east of Toronto (centre of the universe) then I can suggest a wooden boat restorer who might be prepared to meet you and have a look at your Shepherd. His small company has restored several Shepherds. He would no doubt be willing to sit down with you for an hour and chat about what he thinks you need to do - maybe plan A plan B or plan c. It wouldn't cost you a whole lot to hear from an expert.

You do sometimes need to have a pretty thick skin on this forum. But, the men here are dedicated to their boats and to doing things the right way. That also usually means the safe way as well. Many of them are salt water sailors and they know from personal experience that boats are sometimes a dangerous commodity. We all invariably attract guests aboard, nice people who are all too willing to place their safety in our hands.

Hope you stick with your dream of getting this Shepherd seaworthy. They were terrific hulls in rough water, I know from experience. Rotting chines were always a royal pain-in-the behind on my boat and my one suggestion to you, is that you get inside that hull and check them. Take lots of photos as you do future work. I really like your restoration photo site.
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters

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Big D
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Re: Cabin wall insulation

Post by Big D »

I'm seeing a lot of "Red Flag" words in this wooden boat thread like bondo, foam, etc., and while epoxy is a wooden boat's best friend for some fixes, most repairs should be done using wood, but hey it's your boat right? Unfortunately I know how this will likely turn out, and you will come to realize the same yourself each year. While some of us may not agree with the methods, I'm sure we're all willing to help answer questions when we can. I wish you luck in your project and keep us posted on your progress.

Where are you located? Check this out for wood or parts, it is in a marina in Orillia:
http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicle ... Z525018691
and check "poster's other ads" for salvaged parts, motors, generator, swim platform, etc
She was a 1969 36 ft wooden beauty with big blue 440s that we'll miss forever.
And thanks to the gang, 2012 Trojan Boater Of The Year

jimbo36
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Re: Cabin wall insulation

Post by jimbo36 »

Well said Big D. We share the same concern for RobertS.

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prowlersfish
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Re: Cabin wall insulation

Post by prowlersfish »

Agree
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Commissionpoint
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Re: Cabin wall insulation

Post by Commissionpoint »

Now theres a project! Good gravy!!!

Good luck Robert. Looks like you have a lot of work ahead of you.

Wish I could comment on the process, but its probably best I don't.
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RobertS
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Re: Cabin wall insulation

Post by RobertS »

Big D wrote:I'm seeing a lot of "Red Flag" words in this wooden boat thread like bondo, foam, etc., and while epoxy is a wooden boat's best friend for some fixes, most repairs should be done using wood, but hey it's your boat right? Unfortunately I know how this will likely turn out, and you will come to realize the same yourself each year. While some of us may not agree with the methods, I'm sure we're all willing to help answer questions when we can. I wish you luck in your project and keep us posted on your progress.

Where are you located? Check this out for wood or parts, it is in a marina in Orillia:
http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicle ... Z525018691
and check "poster's other ads" for salvaged parts, motors, generator, swim platform, etc
Hi Big D, thanks for the useful info, we're looking into that. Just to correct, it was someone else that said 'Bondo and plywood' the sheet material is 3/4" Crezon, it's used for highway signs here, I'm building it up in layers, all coated, screwed and stuck together. The foam is a 6lb 2 part product.
I am aware that the outer shell must tie in to the deck and all bonding should be done onto solid dry materials. I've used a lot of epoxy, Bubbles and the right sealants. Those pictures are somewhere...
If water cant get in, it will remain solid. This IS the first year of a many year project and there is no way we will be going at top speed across Lake Ontario for some time.


I am told that the bottoms of the fuel tanks are sitting on saturated wood and are not safe. Oh, where's that Bondo?

Cheers,
RS

RobertS
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Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:18 am

Re: Cabin wall insulation

Post by RobertS »

jimbo36 wrote:Sorry Roberts, I re-read my post and realized it sounded insulting. Just that I have seen folks go this way before much to their frustration. You need to get some advice before spending more money and time on this old woody. :wink:
Jimbo, First things first makes most sense to me. If water is getting in, then is should be stopped and any part can be re-inforced or re-visited. I have a lot of stainless steel 2X2" angles which are being used for strengthening.

A lot of the pictures may be useful to others and the web site is our own endeavor. My processes are my own and may be more useful to someone without access to white oak and mahogany planks, or a full wood shop.

I appreciate how well built this boat is and most of it is still very solid.

RobertS
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Re: Cabin wall insulation

Post by RobertS »

rickalan35 wrote:Robert, I don't know where exactly you are located in Canada, but if you happen to be in Ontario and especially if you're east of Toronto (centre of the universe) then I can suggest a wooden boat restorer who might be prepared to meet you and have a look at your Shepherd. His small company has restored several Shepherds. He would no doubt be willing to sit down with you for an hour and chat about what he thinks you need to do - maybe plan A plan B or plan c. It wouldn't cost you a whole lot to hear from an expert.

You do sometimes need to have a pretty thick skin on this forum. But, the men here are dedicated to their boats and to doing things the right way. That also usually means the safe way as well. Many of them are salt water sailors and they know from personal experience that boats are sometimes a dangerous commodity. We all invariably attract guests aboard, nice people who are all too willing to place their safety in our hands.

Hope you stick with your dream of getting this Shepherd seaworthy. They were terrific hulls in rough water, I know from experience. Rotting chines were always a royal pain-in-the behind on my boat and my one suggestion to you, is that you get inside that hull and check them. Take lots of photos as you do future work. I really like your restoration photo site.
Hi Rick,
As I get more pictures up, perhaps they will show that what I am doing is not second rate. It's just a different way. I tried to get white oak and mahogany, it's very hard to find. The hull is fiberglass over plywood.
Running these engines will cost a fortune so 'going to sea' isn't really on the agenda.
I'm more of an interior and decor guy anyway, so once its all dry inside and I can do some finishes and furniture, I might not offend as many people.

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