1989 Trojan 10 Meter 340 Mid cabin - Upgrade thread

[zedtwentyate]

I found my anti-siphon valve and pulled it out. Look what I found! A whole bunch of crap. My buddy work works at a marina showed up with a vacuum tank for changing oil. We sucked out a bunch of fuel and made sure there wasnt any more of this stuff in the line. I ended up just cleaning the check valve out and putting it back in. No sense in replacing it.

[zedtwentyate]

I might be over-posting, but I want to make sure I share my journey for fellow Trojan owners that could encounter some of the same issues.

I now have location some water intrusion in the hull. I was cleaning my bilge due to some clumps of oil that I saw floating around and noticed there was a stain aft of the starboard strut plate. While trying to clean the stain and vacuuming up the water that had collected there, I noticed it just keeps filling up. Its in a strange spot on the boat (at least strange to me). When looking at this picture, its right at the top of that stain. Its slow but steady and makes me concerned the hull might be compromised.



that's just starboard of the rudder setup. Is there something there that could be leaking or is this just a pinhole in the hull?

[RWS]

pinhole?

That's a SOLID glass hull !

NO BALSA INVOLVED

Leak around a strut...... this is a possibility.

might be wash/rain water draining inside the hull, dripping from another source and running down the stringer?

I can't help much with the non-liner Internationals (mid cabins) but I'll bet Bob or Todd can help you properly.

RWS

[zedtwentyate]

pinhole?

That's a SOLID glass hull !

NO BALSA INVOLVED

Leak around a strut...... this is a possibility.

might be wash/rain water draining inside the hull, dripping from another source and running down the stringer?

I can't help much with the non-liner Internationals (mid cabins) but I'll bet Bob or Todd can help you properly.

RWS

It's definitely not rainwater. It's coming up from the hull when I wipe it.

So it's solid fiberglass? That means it's not really a code red issue right now right?

[BobCT]

Harris is correct, no coring in the hull (I have the exact same model).

My thoughts....

1) on the mid cabin, the rudder is above the waterline where it comes through the hull. It's not that.

2) that little bump out is wood so the tabs have something to screw into. That piece is not sealed very well and could be weeping if it's soaked. From your description, seems like a long shot.

3) how about your drain plug? Is it coming UP to that level?

4) any freshwater plumbing in that area? I can't think of any from the factory but I don't have a wash-down which I think was an option.

Let me know if that helps.

Bob

[zedtwentyate]

Harris is correct, no coring in the hull (I have the exact same model).

My thoughts....

1) on the mid cabin, the rudder is above the waterline where it comes through the hull. It's not that.

2) that little bump out is wood so the tabs have something to screw into. That piece is not sealed very well and could be weeping if it's soaked. From your description, seems like a long shot.

3) how about your drain plug? Is it coming UP to that level?

4) any freshwater plumbing in that area? I can't think of any from the factory but I don't have a wash-down which I think was an option.

Let me know if that helps.

Bob

I'm about 90% sure its seeping in through the hull. I looked around for any plumbing, but there isn't any. It's literally just coming in.

I actually don't know where the drain plugs are on the boat. I haven't seen one yet. I'll have to creep around a little more and see what I can find.

Thanks Bob...I keep looking for more pictures of your boat on the forum! Seems like my twin (kinda). Looks great!

[zedtwentyate]

Am I crazy for wanting to just plaster 5200 down over that area after i clean it up? I plan on cutting it out and repairing it, but I'd love to make it to the fall...Thoughts?

[captainmaniac]

Water can travel a long way through voids in a layup before it finally shows itself... But based on what you are saying I would be wondering about water coming in through unsealed (or broken or missing) fastener on a trim tab, or maybe a crack emanating from a fastener. Hitting the spot inside the hull with sealant may stop the water from coming in at that spot, but won't stop it from penetrating the hull from outside. May just move the 'leak' somewhere else.

You could try hitting the spot with sealant or a plop of quick dry epoxy for short term solution (if it will stay dry long enough to get reasonable adhesion - the incoming water will be trying to wash the sealant away), or if the leak is slow enough just ignore it for now... you are going to take some water in through stuffing boxes and due to rain anyways... But definitely monitor it, and put a thorough examination of the hull bottom and transom around that area on the TO DO list for after haulout.

[RWS]

was a hull survey done?

The drain plug is at the bottom, where the hull meets the transom. I believe it has a 7/8"

(as an aside, since my boat has a liner and is lift kept I have learned to remove this plug once every year or two and flush out the hull with a hose in the front bilge, using copious amounts of Dawn dishwashing liquid which I squirt into my bilges on a regular basis)

back to your issue:

it is unlikely that your hull is actually leaking.

as everyone stated above, water will travel.

the water is likely coming in around a fitting or a fastener.

perhaps someone did a repair or upgrade improperly since the boat left the factory, or a through hull has failed.

As far as the hull is concerned, it could be damaged by striking a solid object at high speed, (like a floating dock piling or a 4x4

it could also be damaged by improper lifting, hauling or storing. Perhaps even by freezing?

time to become a detective !

RWS

[RWS]

you said

" ....... stain aft of the starboard strut plate"

could be the strut bolts.

At least this would be a good place to start.

Perhaps at sometime in its life, she hit something with a strut?

Dunno, just a suggestion.

RWS

[zedtwentyate]

That makes sense...I don't like it, but it makes sense.

A survey was done. I opted to not do the out of water survey because the marina was giving me a hard time. My surveyor said he would like to do it, but often does not. I spoke to him yesterday and he said he noticed that spot but did not see any water coming in at that time.

The strut plate actually has a different amount of epoxy over the nuts than the port side. I noticed this when I was down there because the epoxy was tacky and that didnt seem right. I called the marina who serviced the boat to find any service records from that area. I doubt they are going to be helpful in this matter because they dont want me to hold them liable for a bad repair...i wouldnt anyway. I just want an idea of where to start with this.

Sounds like there are two spots to thoroughly inspect...

1. Starboard trim tab region
2. Starboard strut plate


Anyone have any thoughts on the crap in the gas tank? Is there something i can do to clear that out? I read on another site that E10 ethanol gas will eat through just about anything. I don't see how I could get that tank cleared out without hauling out a motor or cutting up a floor. After cleaning that anti-siphon valve out, it clogged again. I haven't pulled it yet, but its symptoms were the same and the motor runs when the tanks are on crossover.

I'm having some serious buyers remorse here and I'm happy I have a beautiful F-27 sitting on the other side of the marina, incase this one sinks!

[mikeandanne]

Seems to me that all of these old boats (insert any makers name here) 25 plus years old are going to have some issues to resolve from bad maintenance etc.....might take a while to resolve some but you will...I am having sellers remorse because I am pretty sure we will have to pick thru any new boat that we get, even had a brand new one once and still had issues.

My understanding of ethanol enhanced fuel is that it may cause some issues with older fuel systems ( read marine tanks)....apparently the ethanol starts to act like a solvent .....lots of info out there about this and older boats...one of the boaters up here, a pilot, used to regularly suck a gallon of fuel from the bottom of his tanks with one of those oil removal hand vac tanks( not the electric ones) to clean any water buildup and what not out, claims it worked for him, although he had extra fittings on the tank top that made it convenient to do so.

[RWS]

Regarding "Buyers Remorse" keep in mind that these boats are 25-35 years old !

Just imagine what issues you might have on an 1980's vintage car, kept outside all year round and in all kinds of temperatures & conditions, not to mention humidity !

I am the second owner of my 1983 International. First owner bought her new, right off the floor at the Miami Boat Show and kept her for 18 years.

I have owned her now for what will be 15 years this fall.

Maintenance is CONSTANT.

It WILL take you some time to get it all caught up. When a boat is for sale, the owner generally lets things go.

Don't get so easily discouraged, the issue you have is not a costly repair, just time consuming.

RWS

[zedtwentyate]

Regarding "Buyers Remorse" keep in mind that these boats are 25-35 years old !

Just imagine what issues you might have on an 1980's vintage car, kept outside all year round and in all kinds of temperatures & conditions, not to mention humidity !

I am the second owner of my 1983 International. First owner bought her new, right off the floor at the Miami Boat Show and kept her for 18 years.

I have owned her now for what will be 15 years this fall.

Maintenance is CONSTANT.

It WILL take you some time to get it all caught up. When a boat is for sale, the owner generally lets things go.

Don't get so easily discouraged, the issue you have is not a costly repair, just time consuming.

RWS

Thanks RWS...

I don't really have buyers remorse. I went through this with my trashed F27 a couple years ago and thought I was getting a boat that didnt need as much work. I wanted to invest my time and money into cosmetics and gadgets...and I still will, but not until she is sound.

An 80's car in Upstate NY would be a pile of rust at this point!

This too shall pass...

[yorklyn]

I would bet money that all you have is a leak from one of the trim tab mounting screws. all that "bump out" is a piece of hard wood backing for the trim tab screws that is glassed in(using that term loosely since the glass is basically there to just hold the wood and not seal it from the bilge. )
I quit using 5200 a while back. although I disagree with the term "permanent" that 3m uses in the description, it can delaminate fiberglass when force is used during dis assembly of a part glued with 5200. 4200 is usually more the adequate.
If possible i would try simply removing and rebedding the mounting screws for your tabs with 4200.
Your transom (and Hull) are solid glass so the only thing that could rot would be the wood used to back up the screws. i found the i had more then enough thickness in the fiberglass transom for the screws to bite so i would not worry too much about the wood right now.
As far as the strut bolts you should be able to see water weeping from around a bolt if it is leaking. if its not I would try to wait until your cutlass bearing needs replacing, pull the strut, replace the bearing and then reinstall it with new bolts and caulk.