Hull Construction

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The Dog House
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Hull Construction

Post by The Dog House »

I'm thinking about installing a stern thruster on my F26. All three of the required holes will be below the waterline. It's my understanding that the hull below the waterline is solid fiberglass so I shouldn't have to worry about water seeping into the transom core and rotting the wood. Is this correct? Thanks for confirming.
1993 Sea Ray 200 Overnighter OB with 1993 Mercury 150 hp Outboard
1979 Starcraft 14' Rowboat with 2011 Mercury 9.9 hp Outboard
Former boat: 1971 Trojan F26

http://s1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii624/clastewart/

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prowlersfish
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Re: Hull Construction

Post by prowlersfish »

Buy a F30 with twins and forget the thruster :mrgreen: . Your transom is not corded so no worries . Jut avoid the stringers when drilling . While I would prefer a bow thruster a stern thruster would be a much easier install . And they do work well .
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

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The Dog House
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Re: Hull Construction

Post by The Dog House »

prowlersfish wrote:Buy a F30 with twins and forget the thruster :mrgreen: . Your transom is not corded so no worries . Jut avoid the stringers when drilling . While I would prefer a bow thruster a stern thruster would be a much easier install . And they do work well .
Thanks prowlersfish. The F30 is a really nice boat, but here's the math we did.

F30 in decent shape = $10,000
Repair/Replace what's needed = $5,000 to $10,000
Trailer = $5,000
Total cost = $25,000

Stern Thruster = $6,000

Savings = $19,000

We could probably sell our F26 for $5,000, so that would reduce the savings down to $14,000. The F30, however, would burn twice as much fuel and cost twice as much to maintain. Looking toward retirement, having a boat with maneuverability with low operating costs is very enticing.

Given the shape of the F26 hull, an external bow thruster is not a possibility. The internal bow thrusters cost $10,000, which changes the equation a bit. The Yacht Thruster 180C stern thruster costs $5,950 and I can install it myself. With a stern thruster, I'll have the maneuverability of an outboard/sterndrive. That's all I need to stop using the spring lines (and make the wife happy). Thanks again for your help.
1993 Sea Ray 200 Overnighter OB with 1993 Mercury 150 hp Outboard
1979 Starcraft 14' Rowboat with 2011 Mercury 9.9 hp Outboard
Former boat: 1971 Trojan F26

http://s1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii624/clastewart/

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prowlersfish
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Re: Hull Construction

Post by prowlersfish »

You forgot one thing . You know your boat . Starting new your taking a gamble on what you have . surveys are great but know for your self is a big plus .
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

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lawyerdave71
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Re: Hull Construction

Post by lawyerdave71 »

The F30 is a really nice boat, but here's the math we did.

F30 in decent shape = $10,000



YO DOG HOUSE, you need to be my accountant, I LOVE your math!

I have an awesome F30! - No need for a bow thruster - its all in the wrists. When I dock, I never look to see what the bow is doing my eyes are on the stern flipping them throttles.

If all the planets and moons were perfectly aligned, and Jesus Christ himself came down and kissed the bow of my boat, and some moron walked down the dock with 10 grand in his pocket MAYBE I would get LUCKY!!

By me in Illinois and Southern Wisconsin, there is a butt load of F-32s that could be had for 10 grand! And some are 1980 models.

The F-32 is far superior than the F-30. F-32 is wider and heavier.

Having said all that, I understand what you are talking about the need for a bow thruster. Single engine boats are hard to dock. I know, I have problems with my dinghy. I have seen some boats with external bow thrusters in my marina and perhaps that is the way to go.

But anyway, I love your math - one can hope and dream, eh?
Captain Dave -

1978 F30 Flybridge Express

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The Dog House
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Re: Hull Construction

Post by The Dog House »

lawyerdave71 wrote: YO DOG HOUSE, you need to be my accountant, I LOVE your math!

I have an awesome F30! - No need for a bow thruster - its all in the wrists. When I dock, I never look to see what the bow is doing my eyes are on the stern flipping them throttles.

If all the planets and moons were perfectly aligned, and Jesus Christ himself came down and kissed the bow of my boat, and some moron walked down the dock with 10 grand in his pocket MAYBE I would get LUCKY!!
Maybe you should move to the East Coast! :mrgreen: Out here the NADA average retail price is $10,660 with the low retail price being $9,460 ( http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats/1978/Tr ... 807/values ) . Trojan F30s being advertised are generally in this price range. There is an F30 on the upper Chesapeake being advertised for $9,500 ( http://www.thesaltydog.com/SearchBoats/ ... tID=121844 ) . Its possible I could find a "deal", but I wouldn't want to count on that.

Glad you like your F30. Its a great boat and I'll always be a little jealous, even with my stern thruster. :mrgreen:
1993 Sea Ray 200 Overnighter OB with 1993 Mercury 150 hp Outboard
1979 Starcraft 14' Rowboat with 2011 Mercury 9.9 hp Outboard
Former boat: 1971 Trojan F26

http://s1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii624/clastewart/

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prowlersfish
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Re: Hull Construction

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You can buy a lot cheaper then what they are asking in many cases . Looking at salty dog I was amazed how cheap and how many F32s there are many below 10k lowest I saw was 6.5k wow . But you really have to ask what type of shape they are in ? Good Condition in many cases is a joke .

But the cost of ownership goes up with a bigger boat , twin engines just add to the cost both in maintenance/repair and fuel costs . Twin engines won't double fuel costs , But add that to a bigger boat then 2x is realistic . Have twins vs single in a other wise same boat would only increases fuel use maybe 10-15 % . With all factored in going from a F26 to a F30 would double the owner ship costs . And that's not factoring in the costs of buying and fixing what is wrong with your "new" boat .


How much do (should) we spend on our older boats ? Its not hard to spend close to what the boats worth in a up grade or repair . I was faced this when I blew a engine this spring . I had just spent a lot on the boat haul out and new enclosure " glass" and suddenly faced with 15k-25k in repairs pretty dam close to the boats value . A factory reman was 23.5k plus tax ouch ! I could have sold the boat (or good engine) and wake away . My accountant would say that would be the smart thing ( If I had a accountant :mrgreen: ) and Then I would have bought another boat (larger??) . In the end . I found a low hour take out (14k) . While on paper it may not seem smart to put that much in a older boat . is was the right way to go for me . I know the boat . It fits our needs . and We really do enjoy it . I had it 12 years or so and made many changes to help it fit our needs . Some where a must due to both of us getting older . We would have given up anchoring out with out the transom door it was getting to hard and dangerous for her getting on and off the dingy and a plus at floating docks . Enough about me .

Bottom line

What I am getting at is ,Dog House is getting to do a expensive upgrade to his boat . But this upgrade will make life easier for him and more importantly his wife . I think this is a very smart move and the only regret he will have is that he did not do it sooner .
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

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captainmaniac
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Re: Hull Construction

Post by captainmaniac »

The Dog House wrote:Given the shape of the F26 hull, an external bow thruster is not a possibility....The Yacht Thruster 180C stern thruster costs $5,950 and I can install it myself.
What is it about the shape of the hull that makes the bow thruster not possible? Maybe for the brand you are looking at, but are you familiar with Sideshift? https://sideshift.com/monohull-bow-stern-thrusters/

I have seen these on the bows of a 25' Bayliner, 32' Carver Aft Cabin, late 1960s vintage 36' Trojan Sedan (like Big Ds), and a friend's 43' Silverton Aft, and believe they are a bit lower cost than what you are looking at, and probably still a DIY install job.

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The Dog House
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Re: Hull Construction

Post by The Dog House »

captainmaniac wrote: What is it about the shape of the hull that makes the bow thruster not possible? Maybe for the brand you are looking at, but are you familiar with Sideshift? https://sideshift.com/monohull-bow-stern-thrusters/
The thruster needs to be 12 inches below the surface of the water to prevent cavitation. Because the F26 only has 5 degrees deadrise it does not sit very deep in the water. In order to have an external bow thruster 12 inches below the water it would be fairly far back. Another requirement of an external bow thruster is that it be out of the water when the boat is on plane. Because it needs to be so far back to be 12 inches below the waterline it would not be out of the water when the boat is on plane. In order to use an external bow thruster the boat needs to have a steeper entry into the water and/or a greater deadrise.

As it is the Yacht Thruster stern thruster just barely fits. There is 18 inches between the bottom of the hull and the swim platform. The Yacht Thruster 180C is 17 inches long with a 6 inch propeller. By putting the thruster even with the bottom of the hull I'll have 1 inch clearance with the swim platform and the top of the propeller will be 12 inches below the surface of the water (the bottom of the swim platform is just above the water surface). It will work, but there definitely is not a lot of extra room to work with. The F26 does not sit very deep in the water.
1993 Sea Ray 200 Overnighter OB with 1993 Mercury 150 hp Outboard
1979 Starcraft 14' Rowboat with 2011 Mercury 9.9 hp Outboard
Former boat: 1971 Trojan F26

http://s1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii624/clastewart/

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lawyerdave71
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Re: Hull Construction

Post by lawyerdave71 »

Well, I think this is the most interesting Trojan topic to date. Lots to think about in these winter months. Far more interesting than toilets, gauges, and leaky windows!

Dog House as others have said, if you like your boat and you wanna spend money on it and make it more enjoyable for you - god bless you. Do it.

Its like, yeah, I am installing gold plated faucets because I like them and will use them. I will never recover the cost on resale. You know I could buy a radar with a 24 plus inch touch screen which costs more than what the boat is worth. I will use it and enjoy it, but will never see a full recovery on re-sale.

Autopilots - I am huge fan everyone should have one!

It seems you have done extensive research on bow and stern thrusters. One factor to consider, when you are measuring - is your gas tank full or low. My boat, the stern is high when tanks are low and she is low when tanks are full.

On another note, personally, I have never understood why people install granite counter tops in their boats. Too heavy!

I have a fiberglass deck in the cockpit which is 38 years old. I could paint it. I priced out all options for going with a plastic teak deck. At the end of my research, one thing that concerned me was the weight of the plastic teak, I would be adding like 250 to 300 pounds to the stern of boat and the price was well over two grand. In the end, a can of paint and some fancy non-skid is the way to go.

I love my dinghy and outboard motor. Recently, an opportunity came by where I could get a hard bottom dinghy. I hesitated. . . I seriously thought to myself, Jesus the dinghy and motor could be worth more than the big boat!

I, personally, do not believe in NADA values nor do I believe in the values that surveyors say my boat is worth.

If I list my 78 Trojan F-30 for $10k, I will never see it. I suspect I would get a sum between $5k and $7,500. How can I sell my boat for $10k when there are F-32s for $10k? Some F-36's for a tad more? I mean, we can always hope for a stupid buyer, but I do not think I will find one.

I love Trojans. Good boats. But I do have a mistress out there waiting for me in the future. I call her Bertram. In my neck of the woods, some fresh water 33 to 35 Bertrams can be had for mid-teens to mid-twenties. I am sorry, I will admit when faced with a nice F-36 and a Bertram 33? Bertram all the way. Would I ever re-power my Trojan, no. Would I re-power a Bertram, yes.

Unlike most boaters I know, I actually leave the dock!
Captain Dave -

1978 F30 Flybridge Express

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The Dog House
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Re: Hull Construction

Post by The Dog House »

lawyerdave71 wrote:
If I list my 78 Trojan F-30 for $10k, I will never see it. I suspect I would get a sum between $5k and $7,500. How can I sell my boat for $10k when there are F-32s for $10k? Some F-36's for a tad more? I mean, we can always hope for a stupid buyer, but I do not think I will find one.
If only you were on the east coast somewhere! :x If your boat is in good shape I would be very tempted for $5,000! Buying your boat would cost less than the stern thruster! Alas, shipping a flybridge boat from Chicago, IL to Bordentown, NJ would be cost prohibitive. :cry:
1993 Sea Ray 200 Overnighter OB with 1993 Mercury 150 hp Outboard
1979 Starcraft 14' Rowboat with 2011 Mercury 9.9 hp Outboard
Former boat: 1971 Trojan F26

http://s1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii624/clastewart/

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prowlersfish
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Re: Hull Construction

Post by prowlersfish »

If I was running off shore fishing all the time I would pick a Bertram 35 over the F36 . But for bay cruising and time on the hook , I feel the F36 is a better boat . Less rock and roll more room . More live able IMO , and better on fuel to boot
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

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prowlersfish
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Re: Hull Construction

Post by prowlersfish »

One reason , I like the F30 is its got room to walk around to the bow . I fact that is one main reason I decide on my F36 over a 11 meter .

Dog House how is getting to the bow on the F26 ? Looks a lot wider in photos the sports craft I had .

About 14-15 years ago in early march I was checking the lines on my 25 sport craft . I slip off the very narrow "walkway" on the side and caught the rail and slammed against the side . I limpet off the dock cussing the boat all the way . Stop at another marina and talked to a friend working on a F31 . Told him the story and being jealous of the "walk way" he had . He pointed at a F30 that had been sitting for a few years with one engine out (in the owner garage ). A week later it was mine . Even trade for my turn key sportcrap :mrgreen: , pluse $600 owed on yard bill . End of April I was cruising in my "Clean Machine" .

Trojans Rule !!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

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The Dog House
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Re: Hull Construction

Post by The Dog House »

prowlersfish wrote:One reason , I like the F30 is its got room to walk around to the bow . I fact that is one main reason I decide on my F36 over a 11 meter .

Dog House how is getting to the bow on the F26 ? Looks a lot wider in photos the sports craft I had .

Trojans Rule !!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Its easy to get to the bow on the F26. The walkway is plenty wide enough and the bow rail goes all the way back to the cockpit. I looked at used Sea Ray 300s with twin inboards (1980 - 1990) but the sidedeck is practically non-existent and the bow rail stops at the windshield. No way to really get to the bow on those without a good chance of going swimming. :mrgreen: I too am a fan of the Trojan F series. The more boats I look at the more I come back to the Trojans.
1993 Sea Ray 200 Overnighter OB with 1993 Mercury 150 hp Outboard
1979 Starcraft 14' Rowboat with 2011 Mercury 9.9 hp Outboard
Former boat: 1971 Trojan F26

http://s1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii624/clastewart/

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captainmaniac
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Re: Hull Construction

Post by captainmaniac »

The Dog House wrote:The thruster needs to be 12 inches below the surface of the water to prevent cavitation.
The Sideshift model only needs 5" below the waterline at the bow, and perhaps having 2 propellers helps negate the possible problems with cavitation.

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