Go Arizona! Go Arizona!

[bfly71]

now let's pass a law that requires illegal aliens to wear a badge on an arm band. [Don't want to do a star, as that's already been done.]

I asked my 12 year old son what this meant to him. He is in the 6th grade and doesn't have a whole lot of interest in politics but he clearly understood that this is a reference to the Nazi's.

[bfly71]

Hey guys. This is America remember? Home of the free? Nobody should have to carry an identity card based on their race. I'm surprised at you Vet's. You guys put yourselves in the line of fire to preserve our freedoms, but you think it's okay to take somebody else's away based on their accent or the color of their skin? You should be ashamed of yourselves. Home of the free remember? Free? only if you're white? Is that it?
And no , I'm not going to shut up, and no I'm not going home, I am home. [ you think because your conservative, only you can love America?]

Let's remember that the freedoms we enjoy were earned with blood, and should never be taken away to try to manage a social problem. Nobody's denying illegal immigration is a problem. I don't know what the answer is, but racial profiling, bigotry, and intolerance is not the answer.

If you think about it, and the implications of the legislation, and you really believe in the freedom I know some of you have fought for, and not just react with a knee-jerk, if you think a little deeper about the subtleties of what's going on, you will come to the same conclusion.

[Why is it, that when someone disagrees on this form it always has to get nasty? is that what being conservative means?]

Pretty sure where I bolded above is where he offended any and all Veterans here along with any and all members that have Veterans in their family.

Trust me, I am not trying to be a bitch but call a spade a spade.

And I agree - people are much more liberal on the internet. It is the nature of the beast. That being said - let him say any of that to my face and we would have some words. I'm kinda fiesty

I am not against immigration but I am against illegal immigration.

If I want to go into another country, I am required to carry a passport. Does that make every other country in the world racist?

[larglo]

N2itive


I don't recall anyone saying anything about Canadian servicemen at all. Can you point it out please. Being a vet myself, I would never do such a thing to another vet. Anybody who fights for his country on either side deserves respect.

I, myself love to wave the Constitution around, I'm very proud of it, and fought for it, and have the right to wave it around.

I also know about the first amendment, that it works both ways and gives me the right to respond to statements that are made, as much as the person who makes the statement.

That's the problem with libs, they see things in single dimension, conservatives see them two and three dimensions.

But, freedom of speech doesn't include insulting someone, lawyers have field days with people who doesn't understand that point.

Lib's generally try to interject something, in their feeble way, that's not part of the original statement, much like you did here.

I just saw on the news where our president, who, by the way is supposed to represent ALL AMERICANS, after taking an oath to do so, made ugly remarks about the tea party people. I have never seen any president in my lifetime do such a thing.

By the suggestion that you dislike waving the Constitution around, seems like you have little use for it. Just my observation, mind you?

Have a good day

Larry

[Tuck]

so, have i told you'se guys lately how much i love's ya all?

i was telling my wife, just today actually, that wow...you'se guys are the bestest ever. yup. you'se guys sure are the tops.

<POST MADE IN THE HOPES OF FILLING EVERYONE WITH THE WARM N' FUZZIES SO THAT WE MAY MOVE ALONG.>

yuppers...just...yup. you'se guys are wondermus!

[N2itive]

Bfly,

Feisty is good. Having words is good. It's what keeps society in balance. I never suspected you were being a B. I just think what Peter posted should be weighed in it's entirety. He tempered his statement by pointing out the fact that this legislation would pretty much be targeting visible minorities, and that old white guys were probably not among the target group most likely to be asked to prove their citizenship. That seems logical to me. Now imagine you were 3rd generation American but with a background that would give you the appearance that fit the profile. How would you feel if someone kept asking your kids to prove they're American just because they didn't look like the rest of 'em? I believe that would also make you feisty.

For the record, I also do not support illegal immigration in any way. However, I support the right of those that have done it legally to not be harassed.

That being said, Vets have paid and continue to pay the price for all of us to enjoy the freedom to be free from harassment on our own shores because of our race, creed or gender. I respect all Vets and current servicepeople on both sides of our border for what they have done and continue to do, and that includes present company in this forum, no matter if we have a difference of opinion.

Larglo, I never insunuated that you personally had said anything about Canadians. Here are some snippets, however, from the general conversation...

" you're the reason we should close OUR border with Canada and not take any of you in. And you've never said why YOU came to OUR country if that Socialist place to the North is so great ?"

"To Peter tha left wing frog Maybe we get nasty because you called us NAZI's And like I said before they came from your side of the fence. You know the whole National socialist thing in the name. Their race has nothing to do with it. By the way do you have a work visa and are you one of those duel passport types that want to have a foot in Canada and the US ? And don't preach to us Veterans about blood payments YOU served in the Canadian Navy not Ours."

You have the right to wave the Constitution around, sir, and I agree it has been hard fought and won. My own family tree has been radically pruned in both WW's in order to maintain your right to do so, as well as mine. As mentioned earlier, brothers in arms.

I may have sounded harsh but when we as Canadians are branded Socialists it has the exact same effect (and is no less ludicrous) as calling American Vets Nazis. I'm no more socialist than I am Martian.

With all due respect, your assessment of my disdain for the Constitution is totally inaccurate. Both our Constititions are remarkably similar and both uphold the same basic principles. I happen to treasure those freedoms.

The problem is, and I think everyone can agree on this one, is that these days the "spin doctors" are in control. Both right and left wings have 'em, and they are paid ungodly amounts of money (yours and mine) to process information and events and package them to tailor their needs of whoever's footing the bill. They make a mockery of both our documents and use them to sway public opinion. It's getting harder to separate the wheat from the chaff these days, when what we all need is just the plain truth.

As far as the President's actions and remarks, I have not been following the story. I can say that I wish my own country's leader would grow a backbone and have an opinion on something. That man is so afraid of saying anything the least bit controversial he's like vapour.

[alexander38]

To Canadians that I offend I do say a heart felt sorry, But if you look at past remarks from the person I was shootin' at you might see why, That person edited one of his most profound postings that started the worst of this, And yes I do know the history of your army in both WW1 and WW2, and the Forgotten War also.

Said person also use to have his bio and Doctor patience linked to site, That's why I take the shots at him I have, But as you can see he will not answer any questions.

again to all I'm Sorry, unless you are a Socialist, then nope.

And as far as having my papers checked yes sirs I've had my loyalty by the NIS and FBI a few times, Working on nuc subs and having a former Red Army officer for a grand dad. Go figure..And who every said I'm white ?

[larglo]

I may have sounded harsh but when we as Canadians are branded Socialists it has the exact same effect (and is no less ludicrous) as calling American Vets Nazis. I'm no more socialist than I am Martian.

Are you kiddin' me,,,,do you really think that being called a socialist is equal to being called a Nazis! Nazis,,,,who murdered millions and millions of human beings.

A SOCIALISTS, is a political term, for a form of government. There is no reference to them killing anybody! I can't believe this crap! Your lack of knowledge in this area is outstanding!

When lib's hasn't got a good answer for anything, they bring up the "race card".
just as they have with the AZ immigration law, which was passed by the people of AZ that hopes and prays it will help protect their homes and families and keep them safe. Because our government refuses to do, because they are afraid of loosing the Mexican vote.

My god, they may be asked for an ID card to prove they are legal, that's racist.

My god, I hate to be asked for my drivers licence also, if I'm stopped by a cop, for a possible traffic violation. Hell, he may go so far as to ask to search my car for possible drugs. Hey,,,that's racist,,,I'm a white male!

I lived in Carlsbad New Mexico for 5 years after getting out of the service. I worked in a pot ash mine. Much to my surprise there were Mexicans working there, who would have thunk it, right!
When I quit in 1970, on my last day after work, myself and a couple of my closet friends went to a bar, and got drunk. When I had to go, we all said goodbye and they all gave me a big hug,,,,,,,,,they were ALL Mexicans!

The immigration problem has NOTHING TO DO WITH Race, NOTHING!

As had been asked several times, and the lib's refuses to understand, or don't want to, because they really want to stir the *** up,,,,,WHAT IS IT ABOUT ILLIGEL, YOU DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND.

I keep hearing from our beloved president,,,,WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS,,,,and I say,,,,bullshit,,,,only the ones our government wants to follow.
Some poor guy sitting on his front porch, smoking a joint, not hurting anyone, has a SWAT team grab him, ruff him up and throw him in jail.
Just for the record, I don't smoke pot, cigarettes or drink, I quit drinking in 1975 and have never smoked pot.

If the legal Mexicans had any sense they would be up in arms against the one's coming across illegally, getting ahead of the one's who have been waiting, trying to do it the right way for years.

But, please, don't slobber all over me, trying to take what has been said here, trying to make it sound better, and what was really meant. I hear that from our politicians every day, and to be quit honest about it,,,,I'm sick of hearing it.

I'll help build this country with anyone who is here legally, but I'll be dammed if I'll give it up to a bunch of people who wants to steel it from me.

Larry

[N2itive]

National SOCIALIST party. Close enough?

Or, you could be referring to Communist countries, several who's name includes SOCIALIST.

My bad, taking offence at either option.

And I'm calling horsepucks. You honestly going to tell me that if you, your buddies and these Mexicans (who by the sounds of it were legally working here or maybe already US citizens) came across one of these checkpoints you think the Mex's and your group would get treated equally?

And THAT is the point.

If you choose to interpret my respectful tone as "slobbering", you are mistaken. I just find when I'm having a discussion with another intelligent human being some mutual respect goes a long way. Looks like I'm wrong on 2 counts.

[alexander38]

ok I'll bite, What form of govt. would you call yours or most of the EU ? Any form of govt. can be twisted look at China they use the word Republic. They our fair from a Republic. A Socialist Govt. wants to take care and control all, We are not and most of us don't want it. Because if you wait in the cheese line you not Free. And if you want to start a new tread to have this talk please do starting clean may help.

[larglo]

As a favorite quote from the lib's;

I used a poor choise of words,,,,,but we must put this behind us,,,and move on.

Larry

[bfly71]

Socialism and communism are ideological doctrines that have many similarities as well as many differences. It is difficult to discern the true differences between socialism and communism, as various societies have tried different types of both systems in myriad forms, and many ideologues with different agendas have defined both systems in biased terms. Some general points distinguishing the two concepts, however, can still be identified.

One point that is frequently raised to distinguish socialism from communism is that socialism generally refers to an economic system, while communism generally refers to both an economic and a political system. As an economic system, socialism seeks to manage the economy through deliberate and collective social control. Communism, however, seeks to manage both the economy and the society by ensuring that property is owned collectively, and that control over the distribution of property is centralized in order to achieve both classlessness and statelessness. Both socialism and communism are similar in that they seek to prevent the ill effects that are sometimes produced by capitalism.

Both socialism and communism are based on the principle that the goods and services produced in an economy should be owned publicly, and controlled and planned by a centralized organization. Socialism asserts that the distribution should take place according to the amount of individuals' production efforts, however, while communism asserts that that goods and services should be distributed among the populace according to individuals' needs.

Another difference between socialism and communism is that communists assert that both capitalism and private ownership of the means of production must be done away with as soon as possible in order to make sure a classless society, the communist ideal, is formed. Socialists, however, see capitalism as a possible part of the ideal state and believe that socialism can exist in a capitalist society. In fact, one of the ideas of socialism is that everyone within the society will benefit from capitalism as much as possible as long as the capitalism is controlled somehow by a centralized planning system.

Another difference between socialism and communism is centered on who controls the structure of economy. Where socialism generally aims to have as many people as possible influence how the economy works, communism seeks to limit that number to a smaller group.

[bfly71]

Cities that receive the largest numbers of immigrants also have twice the unemployment rate, 40% more people living in poverty, and 40% more serious crime per capita than cities with few or no immigrant arrivals.

Some 11.2 million immigrants arrived in the USA between 1990 and 2000. This, added to the 6.4 million children born to immigrants living in the USA, accounts for almost 70% of the US population growth in the past decade.

Immigrants now represent more than one in every ten US residents, the highest percentage in 70 years.

Over the next 50 years, the US Census Bureau projects that immigration will cause the population of the United States to increase from its present 270 million to more than 400 million.

Nationwide, 33% of Third World immigrants who settled in the USA since 1990, live in poverty, nearly three times the rate for US-born natives. Some 36% of immigrants failed to finish high school, more than double the percentage for US-born nationals.

About 15% of US citizens fall below the poverty line, compared to 29% of non-citizens. About 11% of non-citizens have incomes less than 50% of the poverty line, compared to 6% of citizens.

The number of impoverished people in the USA's immigrant-headed households nearly tripled from 2.7 million in 1979 to 7.7 million in 1997.

During that same period, the number of poor households headed by immigrants increased by 123% while the number of immigrant households increased by 68%.

According to Forbes Magazine, a greater proportion of the US population is currently living in poverty than what was the case three decades ago.

According to Forbes Magazine, Significantly, Hispanics accounted for a statistical 0% of the nation's poor in 1959.

Hispanics first entered the tables in 1972, making up 1.1% of the USA's poor in that year. By 1996, Hispanics made up 2.7% of the nation's poor - almost equivalent to the Black figure.

Forbes Magazine identified the leap in Hispanic poverty rates as being dueto their numbers being "fed by immigration."

According to the US Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, March 2001, some 22.1% of Blacks were below the official poverty line. This compares with 21.2% of Hispanics; 10.8% of Asians and Pacific Islanders; and 7.5% of White non-Hispanics.

According to the Puerto Rican/Hispanic Institute for the Elderly in New York, about 23.8% of elderly Hispanics in the United States live in poverty, with no prospects of improvement in their situation.

In 1997, 25% of all children in California were living below the poverty line. California has the highest number of illegal immigrants.

The number of children living in poverty in California had increased by more than 3% from 1990 to 1997.

In the Appalachia, Mississippi Delta, Black Hills, and Los Angeles areas, more than 30% of Hispanics are below the poverty line.

According to a survey by the University of California at San Francisco and the Field Institute, Latinos are 13 times more likely to be part of the working poor -- defined in the survey as a family off our earning less than $20,000.

Denver's five poorest neighborhoods are populated mostly by Hispanics that only speak Spanish, particularly in the northern part of the city.

In these neighborhoods, 80% of the children receive food coupons, and are responsible for 37% of the city's crime rate.

The number of people in poverty living in immigrant households in Arizona has nearly tripled to 330,000 from 113,000 during the 1990s. During that same time, immigrant households rose to 41%, from 20% of the total of poverty-level households.

In 1996, according to the Immigration and Naturalization Service, 1.2 million newcomers joined the US population - yet fewer than 5% were admitted because of their job skills.

Most of the rest were allowed in because they were relatives of US citizens or other immigrants or were refugees, and a quarter of the total were illegal immigrants.

During the 1990s, more than 1.3 million people with less than a high school education entered the USA.

Of those who arrived in this decade, 34.4% were school dropouts.

In 1998, nearly 40% of immigrants had less than a high school education - double the share for natives, according to the 1990 census figures. The gap widens when grade school education is considered. Some 23% of immigrants have less than nine years of education,compared with just 4% of Americans.

Only 8% of California Latinos have a bachelor's degree or higher, compared with 43% of Asians, 33% of whites and 24% of African Americans, according to the California Research Bureau.

Latinos in California have the highest high school dropout rate (45%), lowest college graduation rate (8%) and, not surprisingly, the lowest median income ($14,560).

The Latino education gap in California is not new. Previous studies showthe same was true as far back as the 1940s.

The high school dropout rate in most Latin American countries exceeds 50%.

Mexico, for example, has an illiteracy rate in excess of 10%, and Guatemala has an illiteracy rate of over 40%.

Median household income in the New York areas of Queens, Brooklyn, Suffolk, Fairfield, favored by immigrants, dropped between 1989 and 1998. This was also the case in many other countiesacross the nation that experienced a large influx of immigrants, according to census data.

The data show that in Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx - counties with a major increase of immigrants - median income fell sharply.

In Queens, according to the data, the median household income fell from $44,938 in 1989, to $36,480 in 1998, a drop of nearly 19%, while in Brooklyn it fell by 18%, from $33,762 to $27,556.

Median income also fell in many counties in other states attractive to immigrants, including Los Angeles County and Miami-Dade County.

In Los Angeles County, where there has been a surge of immigrants from Mexico, median income fell in constant dollars from $45,962 in 1989 to $37,655 in 1998, a decline of 18%.

EVERY 100 MANUAL LABOR IMMIGRANT JOBS CREATE 139 EXTRA POVERTY CASES

A study of 65 rural communities in California's San Joaquin Valley between 1980 and 1990, found that the addition of 100 farm jobs resulted in an additional 139 people - including immigrants, their families and area residents - living in poverty.

This statistic is driven by the low wages paid to the farm worker, who inturn is then unable to support dependents, creating the social welfare problem.

A Rand study looked at the nine million net new jobs created in California from 1960 to 1990. It found that three-fourths of the new jobs were filled by workers with at least some college education, and almost all of the rest were filled by high school graduates.

Furthermore, the share filled by workers with some college education has risen over the years, the Rand study found. By the 1980s, some 96% of net new jobs were filled by such workers.

According to a survey by the University of California at San Francisco and the Field Institute, Latinos are much less likely to benefit from the state's explosion in job growth because they are less likely to finish high school or attend college.

According to the survey, 56% of the state's Latinos had an education level of high school or lower, compared to 28% of blacks, 14% of whites, and 11% of Asians.

THIRD WORLD IMMIGRANT CRIMINALS FILL UP 25% OF FEDERAL PRISONS

Criminal immigrants account for more than 25% of all inmates in federal prisons and is the fastest growing segment of the prison population.

The federal prison population of non-citizens has increased by about 15% per year from the mid-1980s to the present. Upkeep for each prisoner costs the taxpayers $21,300 per year.

Some 80% of cocaine and 50% of heroin in the US is smuggled across the border by Mexican nationals.

Taxpayers pay half-a-billion dollars per year incarcerating illegal alien criminals.

In 1994, the state of Florida sued the federal government, seeking reimbursement for the $884 million a year the state spends on services to illegal aliens. Florida spent $27.6 million in 1993 to arrest, try and jail illegal immigrants charged with crimes in that state alone.

In addition, state and local authorities were spending more than $500 million a year to arrest and imprison illegal immigrants who committed serious crimes.

New York State estimated these added costs at $270 million, while Illinois estimated that it spends $40 million per year for incarceration alone.

The demand for falsified documents in southern and coastal states has created a thriving underworld industry in counterfeiting, thievery, and forgery. For as little as $40 per person,illegal aliens can purchase documents that provide them with entitlement to health care, welfare, and work privileges.

According to an April 1997 report from the Associated Press, more than 180,000 aliens were granted US citizenship in 1996 without the mandatory criminal background checks.

An Associated Press report in February 1997, said the Citizenship USA project, pushed by the White House in 1996 to expedite admission of 1.3 million aliens, allowed as many as 130,000 criminals into the USA from Mexico, South America, and the Caribbean.

THIRD WORLD IMMIGRANT UNEMPLOYMENT

According to the Urban Institute, the highest rates of welfare dependency are in the agricultural counties of California, where unemployment rates are also high. In the heart of California's San Joaquin Valley, for example, 29% of the residents of Fresno (761,000 population), 30% of Merced (199,000) and 25% of Tulare (362,000) county residents were on public assistance in 1996. At the same time, unemployment rates were in double digits, even in the peak spring and summer months.

If it were a state -- and with 3 million residents, its population rivals Oregon's -- the Valley would have the nation's worst economy. Unemployment averages out at 12.4% for the entire region, nearly twice as high as West Virginia's.

In South Central Los Angeles - another high-density immigrant center - the unemployment rate hovers around 20% (four times the state average) and the poverty rate is 40%. This figure has risen consistently over the last ten years.

THIRD WORLD IMMIGRATION'S EFFECT ON THE USA LABOR MARKET

An estimated 1,880,000 American workers are displaced from their jobs every year by immigration; the cost for providing welfare and assistance to these Americans is over $15 billion a year.

It is estimated that between 40 and 50% of wage-loss among low-skilled Americans is due to the immigration of low-skilled workers.

THIRD WORLD IMMIGRANT WELFARE USAGE

The proportion of immigrant households using welfare programs is estimated by the Center for Immigration Studies to be between 30% to 50% higher than that of US-born citizens.

According to the Immigrants and Welfare, Research Perspectives on Migration' report released by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace -- International Migration Policy Project, immigrant use of welfare has been rising, regardless of how "immigrant" and "welfare" are defined.

Immigrants in California are three times more likely to receive welfare than native-born residents, a dramatic difference that is not seen in other states with burgeoning immigrant populations, according to a report by the US General Accounting Office.

Forty-six% of California's children live in families with incomes low enough to qualify for subsidized school meals ($29,000 or less annually for a family of four). Child-care costs, averaging $407 monthly for a preschooler, amount to one-half the earnings of a full-time, minimum-wage worker.

Over 60% of Hispanic households in the Alexandria, Virginia area, receive assistance from federal or state programs for low-income residents. Forty-four% of Hispanic families get subsidized school lunches for their children.

Bearing in mind that about 37% of immigrants in Phoenix, Arizona, and 36% statewide fall below the poverty level, the news that the number of people living below the federal poverty level in that state, soared nearly 90% since 1989, should come as no surprise.The state population grew about 30% in that time.

HEALTHCARE BURDEN

Immigrants who arrived in the US after 1989 and their US-born children account for 60% or 5.5 million of the increase in the size of the uninsured medical health population.

The low health insurance rate means that these Third World immigrants show up at the emergency rooms of America's hospitals because they cannot afford medical care.

Dozens of hospitals in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California, have been forced to close or face bankruptcy because of federally-mandated programs requiring free emergency room services to illegal aliens.

In a recent year in Colorado, the state's emergency Medicaid program paid an estimated $30 million in hospital and physician delivery costs for about 6,000 illegal immigrant mothers - an average of $5,000 per baby. Those 6,000 births to illegal aliens represent 40% of the births paid for by Medicaid in Colorado. Those 6,000 babies immediately became US citizens and qualified for full Medicaid services, with a cost yet to be tabulated.

In addition to general welfare, the GAO -- the investigative arm of Congress -- has documented similar differences in the use of Medicaid, the nation's health insurance program for the needy. In California, for instance, the number of citizens naturalized in fiscal years 1996 and 1997 receiving Medi-Cal (California's Medicaid program) was 23.7%, compared with 8.2% for native-born citizens.

THE FINANCIAL BURDEN OF THIRD WORLD IMMIGRATION

The net annual cost of immigration has been estimated at between $67 and $87 billion a year. The National Academy of Sciences found that the net fiscal drain on American taxpayers is between $166 and $226 a year per native household. Even studies claiming some modest overall gain for the economy from immigration ($1 to $10 billion a year) have found that it is outweighed by the fiscal cost ($15 to $20 billion a year) to native taxpayers.

The net deficit is caused by a low level of tax payments by immigrants, because they are disproportionately low-skilled and thus earn low wages, and a higher rate of consumption of government services, both because of their relative poverty and their higher fertility.

The federal government currently provides targeted services to migrant and seasonal farm workers and their dependents that cost about $600 million per year, equivalent to ten% of these workers annual earnings.

According to the Immigrants and Welfare, Research Perspectives on Migration' report released by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace -- International Migration Policy Project, approximately 1.4 million immigrants receive AFDC or SSI payments totaling $4.5 billion annually.

Their average monthly AFDC payment is $133; their average SSI payment is $407. Estimates using a more broadly defined package of benefits and counting benefits from state and local as well as federal sources indicate that immigrants receive approximately $25 billion annually in assistance benefits.

IMMIGRATION'S IMPACT AND COST ON PUBLIC SCHOOLS

The USA's public schools are already overcrowded with six million more children in schools today than in the late 1980s. In 2002, school attendance rose from the 1997 level of 50 million students in primary and secondary education to more than 55 million - directly as a result of immigration.

The Urban Institute estimates that the cost of educating illegal alien children in the nation's seven states with the highest concentration of illegal aliens was $3.1 billion in 1993 (which,with the growth of their population to 1.3 million, was more than $5 billion in 2000). This estimate does not take into account the additional costs of bilingual education or other special educational needs.

The Carrying Capacity Network, a non-profit group that studies growth and environmental issues, estimated in 1994 that legal and illegal immigrants have cost Florida $3.3 billion since 1970.

In California, the already mentioned cause and effect of a one-person increase in farm employment creating a 0.67-person increase in welfare use, means an additional annual welfare cost of $954 per farm job.

Since farm workers in California in 1990 earned an average $7,320, each farm job was associated with a welfare payment equivalent to approximately 13% of average farm earnings.

The costs of illegal immigration in terms of government expenditures for education, criminal justice, and emergency medical care are significant. California has estimated that the net cost to the state of providing government services to illegal immigrants approached $3 billion during a single fiscal year.

Stretched to the limit by these burdensome costs, the state of California sued the federal government in 1993 for $10.5 billion to recover the costs of education, health care, policing, and other administrative services for legal and illegal immigration.

ASIAN IMMIGRATION MYTHS It is often thought that Asian immigration to the USA does not fall into these damning statistical breakdowns. While it is true that Asian immigrants to the USA fare on average better than immigrants from other parts of the Third World, it is a myth that all is well with the Asian immigrant community.

According to the March 2001 US Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, some 10.8% of Asians and Pacific Islanders were below the official poverty line.

In 1993, a study that showed that despite a model minority' stereotypical image of being self-sufficient, 55% of elderly Chinese immigrants in California received public assistance, mostly Supplemental Security Income.

Among elderly Vietnamese immigrants, the figure was 74%, compared with 21% of Mexican immigrants and nine% of the native-born elderly.

Arrest rates for American Asians are higher than Whites for gambling, gangsterism and youth homicide. Asians make up half of all gang arrests in Seattle, and their gang rate relative to population increased to nearly even with Blacks in the city by 1994. A 1992 Los Angeles study showed that Asians are 13 times more likely than Whites to be members of gangs.

Nationally, Asian poverty is slightly worse than the White average. Asian poverty rates in some urban areas are equal to, or worse, than blacks. Asian poverty in many census tracts ranges in the ghetto definition range, from 40% up to 70%. Asian per capita income is often comparable or worse than Blacks in urban areas. In San Francisco, Asian poverty rates are equal to those of Blacks for the equivalent family structure.

CONCLUSION - A THREAT TO THE FABRIC OF AMERICAN SOCIETY

It is thus clear that Third World immigration to the USA brings none of the supposed benefits that the pro-immigration lobby suggests. The truth is that Third World immigrants do not bring skills,prosperity, stability, or economic growth.

On the contrary: they bring with them serious social problems that are then borne by native-born Americans, both financially and socially.
Third World immigration threatens the very fabric of society, and unless halted, will see the final dissolution of the American Republic.

[bfly71]

Illegal Immigration is bad for the country.

Reality check is that most illegal immigrants don't look like the average white American male - go figure. It isn't racisism.

If I went to Japan, better believe I probably would be asked for my papers at one point during my visit. I am okay with that, I would have my documents in order.

Just like fighting terrorism, if it means that every person of middle eastern descent gets stopped, I am okay with that. Why - because right now, these are the people who are threatening the safety of my family and friends. That is reality - not racisim.

When it the All American Soccer Mom starts killing innocent people and is identified as a national threat... I will be happy to carry around, as I already do, my ID in whatever form I am required to do so.

If as part of the illegal immigration crackdown, I need to show my ID when asked, I am also happy to do so.

[larglo]

And I'm calling horsepucks. You honestly going to tell me that if you, your buddies and these Mexicans (who by the sounds of it were legally working here or maybe already US citizens) came across one of these checkpoints you think the Mex's and your group would get treated equally?

-------------------------------

I'm not sure where these "checkpoints" came from, but that's a great example of how lib's try to make up things and add to the conversations, something that's NOT true.

So perhaps, when you stop this practice, I just might be able to have an intelligent conversation with you.

Have a good day,

Larry

[larglo]

WOW, bfly71

Sock it to them. You know, all these people, who think of themselves as doing good by supporting those who inter this country illegally, won't know what hit them, when they start loosing their jobs to these people.

I really don't think the average American dislikes people in or from Mexico, I know I don't.

All I want from them and people from other countries who enter this country, is to do it a legal way, that's it.

But the lib's try to say we're racist, and all sorts of things, that are untrue.

But I don't think they care about anything, except to win an argument. They will screw this country and all the people in it, just to win.

Larry