Close to pulling the trigger on a 1977 F36

[Hart]

New guy in town...........

I've been enamored with the Trojan F-series sedans since growing up boating on Michigan's Lake St. Clair - the guy in the well next to my father's boat had a sharp F32 (background: I was piloting my father's 1968 36' Chris Craft Cavalier double cabin when I was about 13 years old after passing my USCG Boater's Safety Class).

Now, many years later, I'm getting back into boating with my own first boat. I had been looking at F32s, but the extra cockpit and salon space of the F36 hold m1ore appeal. I was thinking about one of Trojan's 10.8 meter sedans, but I can't get away from the classic Fs.

I looked at a 1977 F36 that was in what I thought to be pretty decent shape for a 1977 boat. The wood looks good throughout (though the teak decking is covered w/indoor-outdoor carpet in the cockpit, and I'm assuming the 1977s had teak decking in the salon as well; am I wrong on that?). Any way, there are a couple of soft deck spots that I noticed: one on the bridge right at the top of the ladder, and one near the anchor mount on the port foredeck. I didn't notice any other noticeable soft spots in the glass other than those. I'm not a surveyor by any stretch of the imagination, but from what I could tell, I saw no delamination or other structural issues with the stringers; the engines mounts all looked good and solid.

More importantly, the Chrysler 440s are original and have 1800 hours. I had the owner cold start them, and they fired right up. He indicated that, to him, they appeared to be cooler-running engines, usually getting up to 135-140 or so. The ignition system let off a buzzing noise on turning the key (is this normal?). They ran for about 5 minutes and sounded smooth. No smoke of any kind was noticed from the exhaust ports on start or after running, and water was just pouring out of both exhaust ports off stern. The owner told my wife he changed impellers every 2-3 years. The bilges appeared to be dry, but I noticed a small bit of oily sludge down in the port side, low-point channel. Due to the boat's age, my sense is that it's residual drippage from years of oil changes. All electrical/electronic systems seemed to be working fine. The original owner was the K-Mart corporation (I'm guessing it was a vessel used for marketing purposes) and the owner indicated that he had the original receipt for the boat, original manuals for everything, and a slew of paperwork. He performed his own general maintenance and upkeep but I didnt' ask him if he documented his work.

I noticed a few small cracks in the fiberglass here and there, but nothing major. The ones that gave me the biggest pause were the 1-2" cracks that were coming from the base of the port bridge support structure where it meets the gunwhale. Not wide enough to insert a dime, but cracking at a structural joint nevertheless. I also noticed a couple small cracks in the two sliding port windows. The owner said he cracked one from an inadvertent slam. However, I'm wondering if the bridge is getting wobbly and contributed to the cracks. Those windows, like the rest, still slid okay - none were bound up beyond movement though a bit hard to slide.

The kicker, and thing that is really drawing me to this boat, is that the current owner bought it from the prior one from the same marina that I grew up boating from, clear across the other side of Lake St. Clair. I know my father, were he still alive, would be proud as hell if I owned this boat, but that's an emotional argument for buying this boat (or anything else, for that matter) and I don't want to make my first boat buy based on emotion and potentially get stuck with a total dog. The re-sale after having the boat 10 years or so, and putting money into making some interior upgrades, general maintenance, etc. doesn't trouble me. I know in 10 years it'll be worth 15K less - the boat will be 45 years old by that time.

The current ask is $25K. Owner said he was firm, but is ready to put the boat up for the winter and head back to Florida August 29th. I was thinking of offering $20K and working from there should I decide to pull the trigger. I'd really love to own this boat, re-do the cockpit teak (and interior salon deck as well if it, too, is teak) and just take some time for my wife and I to make it ours. Obviously my purchase would be contingent on a satisfactory survey and sea trial.

I guess I'm just looking for some advice, and if sound advice along these lines is to be had, I figure it will come from here. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[aaronbocknek]

WELCOME ABOARD. have her go through a survey and seatrial and go from there. i love the fact that she was in the marina that you knew as a youth. it's almost destiny!!
tri cabin aaron, baltimore, md.

[Big D]

Welcome aboard. No question those are well built boats. Some cracks here and there are the norm for that age. Pics would help here but if you're handy, even structural glass repairs are doable with some advice here. The buzzing when you turn the key is normal, oil pressure alarm sounding as there is no oil pressure until the engine is running; should shut off after engine starts up. The real test is to take her out and get her good and hot, then bring her back and see if runnability changes. 140 degrees for raw water cooling is normal, if you have fresh water cooling with antifreeze in the engine and heat exchanger, it should run hotter or there may be an issue with the cooling system; t-stat?. 440's are good engines. Hope it works out in your favour. Keep us posted, would be nice to have you aboard as a new F36 owner, but yes, get a survey for sure.

[Hart]

.....it's almost destiny!!
tri cabin aaron, baltimore, md.

Geez, that's what I'm thinking, Aaron (my brother's name, BTW, who is going to take another look with a "Trojan" friend of his who re-did one from top to bottom).

I appreciate the help. One thing I forgot to mention:

the engines have an electronic ignition system mounted on top of the engines near what appear to be spark arrestors. Is there a way to quickly identify if they were the "lean burn" systems that caused so much trouble? Or didn't they use these on the marine 440s?

Also, does anyone know for certain if the salon decking is also teak?

Sanding and refinishing that decking would very likely be job #1 should I obtain this boat - and the job I would most look forward to.

Thank you, both, for the warm welcome, kind words and advice.

I'm looking forward to (hopefully) becoming a very active member of this site!

[Vitaliy]

looks like a great find there bud, also seems to me like you did your homework on this one

good luck on your purchase

[prowlersfish]

Lean burn was not used in marine engines . The salon floor was not teak unless it was a option I am unaware of ( I also have a 77 . My deck is fiber glass not teak ( teak was a option )

[Hart]

Lean burn was not used in marine engines . The salon floor was not teak unless it was a option I am unaware of ( I also have a 77 . My deck is fiber glass not teak ( teak was a option )

Prowler, is your cockpit decking teak? Would it have been an option to do either or both if desired? Or (if you know) was it either fiberglass throughout or teak throughout?

[prowlersfish]

Mine is fiberglass . I belive teak was a option .

[Commissionpoint]

'77 is my favorite year. The perfect blend of old and new.

Paul you have a late '77 correct? As in you have the shower stall with bench? An early '77 before the facelift should have been available with teak decks, and shouldn't have the shower stall, but have a shower arrangement like in the F-32 IIRC.

[prowlersfish]

Correct late 77 ( 78 model built 77) . The teak rear deck was a option in 77 and in past years and maybe std on the very early ones .

[k9th]

Welcome aboard and good luck with your new boat.

[aaronbocknek]

Geez, that's what I'm thinking, Aaron (my brother's name, BTW, who is going to take another look with a "Trojan" friend of his who re-did one from top to bottom).


well then. if your brother is named aaron and he is going with you, then, i would say all the universal signs are lining up. let us know what is going on and if you do buy her, pics please.
aaron in baltimore.

[Hart]

I sincerely appreciate all the kind words, thoughts and advice.

Besides the '77 we looked at Sunday, I'm now seriously looking at two others in the general vicinity. If one of the three did not end up being my boat, then quite simply it wasn't meant to be. I'm working phones hard, anticipating a ferry ride across the pond this weekend to look (assuming a price can be agreed to).

If it goes well, I'm going to put myself out on a limb and say that I may be an F36 owner by Labor Day.

If not? I very well be an F36 owner by next Memorial Day, with an extra $3,000 in my pocket. We'll see. Whatever is meant to be will be.

I'll keep you guys/gals posted. Thanks again - you guys have been great.

[Hart]

..........or did it?

I didn't pull the trigger on the '77 I looked at, but I pulled the trigger on a '79 in Racine, WI that I hadn't seen. Looks as close to pristine as a 1979 is going to be.

Same 440 motors with 550 hours, bilges look clean enough to eat off.

Wife and I take the ferry over to Milwaukee from Muskegon on Saturday to do the first inspect. The rest is contingent on the survey, mechanical survey and sea trial. All parties are fully confident, though the boat has been out of the water for two years, which I'm amvialent about.

I'll keep you all posted!

[prowlersfish]

The 79 will have a enclosed shower stall a big plus . only a few of the last 77 s had it . The sitting on land for 2 years would cause me some worry