Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

[ScurvyDog]

I have been watching this thread as I have been contemplating the same question. I have a 78 F32 which I have owned for 9years. Unfortunately since the boat market has rendered my boat worth substantially less than expected I have decided I am going to restore the boat. I can see getting a newer boat before retirement, but am going to use my trojan until then. I have some deck work, modernization of electronics, and interior refurb to do, but she is a great boat and will serve us well for the next decade or two! While I would love a newer boat with less maintenance required she will do for now!

[todd brinkerhoff]

I have been watching this thread as I have been contemplating the same question. I have a 78 F32 which I have owned for 9years. Unfortunately since the boat market has rendered my boat worth substantially less than expected I have decided I am going to restore the boat. I can see getting a newer boat before retirement, but am going to use my trojan until then. I have some deck work, modernization of electronics, and interior refurb to do, but she is a great boat and will serve us well for the next decade or two! While I would love a newer boat with less maintenance required she will do for now!

And there you have a perfect scenario for restoration. A boat you love and plan on keeping for a long time.

And just for reference purposes, my neighbors have a BRAND new 33' Chaparrel. They couldn't go out with us this weekend because they need a new water pump. They have been stuck at the dock at least a dozen times since purchasing the boat last year.

[297Elegante]

Ready123, that's the kind of woodwork I wish I had! Slowly working towards it, but how nice would it have been to get it from day one.

Honestly I'm not sure who Trojan would be competing against. The international series definitely had them moving toward the more modern express style (tiara does come to mind).

I looked at a 10 meter, F43s and F36s, and I hope I don't alienate anyone but the older F series just fits me better. The internationally was roomy, just didn't blow me away enough to keep looking for them.

[RWS]

<snip>

And just for reference purposes, my neighbors have a BRAND new 33' Chaparral. They couldn't go out with us this weekend because they need a new water pump. They have been stuck at the dock at least a dozen times since purchasing the boat last year.

Consider this:

Buy a new boat.

pay all that depreciation over 5-10 years.

at the end of the 5th year or the 10th year, you have a boat that requires the same kind of repairs, upkeep and maintenance as you are doing right now.

just sayin........

there is something to be said for the path discussed in this thread, but it can only work if the OWNER is CAPABLE of and can actually contribute the WORK.

RWS

[ScurvyDog]

Consider this:

Buy a new boat.

pay all that depreciation over 5-10 years.

at the end of the 5th year or the 10th year, you have a boat that requires the same kind of repairs, upkeep and maintenance as you are doing right now.

just sayin........

there is something to be said for the path discussed in this thread, but it can only work if the OWNER is CAPABLE of and can actually contribute the WORK.

RWS[/quote]


You do have a point there! I do love my Trojan! It has bottomed out as far as depreciation, it has great lines and classy accommodations.

[todd brinkerhoff]

Ready123, that's the kind of woodwork I wish I had! Slowly working towards it, but how nice would it have been to get it from day one.

Honestly I'm not sure who Trojan would be competing against. The international series definitely had them moving toward the more modern express style (tiara does come to mind).

I looked at a 10 meter, F43s and F36s, and I hope I don't alienate anyone but the older F series just fits me better. The internationally was roomy, just didn't blow me away enough to keep looking for them.

You certainly aren't alienating me by not liking the Internationals. I love the F series lines. I think that's what was cool about Trojan, and honestly this forum. Two different lines of boats that cater to different tastes.

Today, I saw a 10 Meter charter out on the lake fishing that looked a lot like RWS's with the racing stripe. I kept looking at it thinking how cool it looked. Others may think its ugly. And yet everyone gets along.

I think an F-32 is a perfect boat to restore...and then a set of 250 HP diesels...just joking

[k9th]

Isn't Formula a family owned company?

Formula is indeed a family owned company headquartered in the town I live in, Decatur, IN. The Porters are a great family and have given generously to the community having donated the property where the current new hospital stands. They survived the latest downturn in 2008 by cutting costs and had to lay off almost all of their workers. Fortunately they are still making great boats and I see them being shipped out all the time.

Here is a brief synopsis of their history:

"Formula was originally a company founded by Don Aronow in 1962 in Miami, Florida. Formula was purchased by American Machine and Foundry (AMF) in 1964, later combined with Thunderbird Products, and then sold to Fuqua Industries as Thunderbird/Formula in 1969. Vic Porter purchased Thunderbird/Formula from Fuqua in 1976. Porter and his children still own and operate the company today. Formula is now the brand of boats sold, and Thunderbird is the company name itself."

Just a thought on the topic posted, I bought my Trojan because I love the quality and the brand, Most off all I love the classic lines. I have put as much money into upgrades as I spent on the boat originally and realize that I will never get that much back at sale. But I am not looking to. I am making it the way that my wife and I like it so that we will be comfortable and safe when we travel in the open waters of the Great Lakes.

She is still a head turner in our marina that has nearly 600 boats. Several have stopped by to tell me of their ownership years with a tri-cabin and they recount many fond memories. There are two tri-cabins in the marina, a few Trojan Express by Carver, a couple of nice F-32s and a couple of nice F-36s. I haven't seen any of the International series yet.

The charter boat guys in the two Great Lakes I am familiar with which are Huron and Michigan use primarily the 28' Cherokee which was designed and built specifically for Great Lakes chartering.

I understand that Hatteras/CABO was purchased by Navis HCY Acquisition, LLC in 2013 from Brunswick.

[todd brinkerhoff]

So thanks for taking the time to provide your insight into this thread. Sometimes I like to talk to people with Trojan boats about things outside maintenance, and I don't have any Trojan folks at the dock...so you guys are it...

So from what I've deduced, the Trojan brand is worthy of restoration, if you approach it from a utility standpoint and not an investment standpoint. If you plan on keeping your boat for a long time, and couldn't see yourself selling it, make it what you want. If you want another boat, put enough money into the boat you have to ensure it is clean, with updated the electronics, and everything is working properly...and remember, restoration only makes sense if you are able to do most of the work yourself, like Yorklyn.

A few years ago, during the housing crash, an interesting thing happened. Places like Home Depot and Lowes had a tremendous increase in sales. That's because when people know that they are sitting on something that they may owe more than the house could sell for, they do one of two things; Walk away from it (foreclosure) or invest in making that home their dream home.

The housing market has started to come back on line. I really don't see the boating market coming back on line for mid size boats that the average Joe can afford. The 90's bubble provided an interesting time, where average people could live like the rich. I don't think history will repeat itself.

So, find a good brand, that has a sound structure, that you love and is easy to live with. Don't pay too much for it...take your time looking. When you finally have the the boat you want, only spend what you have, after you've put money away for a rainy day. Start with replacing the safety items, and then move on to updating electronics. Save the luxury items (synthetic teak flooring comes to mind) when you are happy with the soundness of the basics. And for god sakes, go out and use it.

[RWS]

interesting read re how the "highly successful" International line actually happened.


http://books.google.com/books?id=OtrQXq ... 22&f=false

Ron Pickle & the development & success of the International Series:

http://www.boattest.com/resources/view_ ... ?NewsID=53

some of the above may have been previously posted on the Forum.

RWS

[RWS]

interesting read re how the "highly successful" International line actually happened.


http://books.google.com/books?id=OtrQXq ... 22&f=false

Ron Pickle & the development & success of the International Series:

http://www.boattest.com/resources/view_ ... ?NewsID=53

some of the above may have been previously posted on the Forum.

RWS

[todd brinkerhoff]

interesting read re how the "highly successful" International line actually happened.


http://books.google.com/books?id=OtrQXq ... 22&f=false

Ron Pickle & the development & success of the International Series:

http://www.boattest.com/resources/view_ ... ?NewsID=53

some of the above may have been previously posted on the Forum.

RWS

I have never received a good answer as to why Trojan moved away from the Schoell designs with their "New" International. When I spoke to John Leed, they were already planning on developing a "New" 10.8 Meter Convertible based on the New platform. I guess there can be a lot of scenarios, but the Trojan/Schoell relationship seemed almost perfect.

John said the new boat was a tremendous amount of work because everything was molded separately, and then needed to be bonded together. After speaking to "Boatbuilder" Charlie, he basically stated, in sum and substance, "We liked Harry, but we really wanted to move in a different direction. Fulvio De Simoni was considered one of the top Italian designers, and still is the Sole designer for Pershing Yachts. And although the Delta Conic hull was a great design, Bertram was considered to have the best designed hulls in the industry." It almost sounded to me as if the Trojan - Schoell relationshiop soured, but I could be wrong.

[RWS]

Having spoken with John Leed and after meeting Harry Schoell in person (and going for a ride in excess of 70 MPH in his PULSE DRIVE demo boat), I can report that in addition to royalty issues, there were significant differences in opinion, realities of production costs, egos, and other material differences between the PRODUCTION folk in Lancaster, and the DESIGN folk in Florida.

Additionally it should be noted that the MID CABIN based International was a huge departure from the original vacuum liner, compartmentalized, radical (for it's time) curved corners, Cleopatra eye portlight, electrical Start Trek door Schoell design.

I will post some additional info on this shortly.

RWS

[RWS]

The following is a list of innovations applicable to my 1983 Trojan International Express Cruiser.

After reviewing these items, let me know if you believe this vessel is worthy of a maintenance/restoration/upgrade/repairs/ownership

Innovations (in no particular order):

Delta Conic Hull Design - Superior stable and dry ride

Exceptional sea keeping ability

Tremendous stability at rest while fishing, anchored out overnight or entertaining

Stable, dry ride makes her feel more like a forty footer than her 33’ length suggests
13’ beam on a 33’ vessel

Unsurpassed cockpit storage areas under helm/companion seating, L-Bench and wetbar storage areas plus fold out lockers built into the transom for lines, etc.

Cavernous lazerette storage for dinghy & dinghy outboard engine

Schoell’s patented exhaust system is built into the hull liner, it muffles the exhaust and then that puts the exhaust into the water along the sides of the boat
where it will be carried away instead of blowing back into the cockpit

The engine compartment and all air intake areas are shielded with foil covered, unicellular foam insulation to reduce all sound and noise from engines & moving air.

Helm console hinges open easily for access to the wiring, switches & instruments

molded-in air conditioning ducts in the ceiling to provide even cooling throughout the boat; (hot air rises, cool air…duh…) all in salon gel coated headliners featuring built in directional vents

stainless grab rails that function as towel holders in the head/shower

galley features standard stainless double sink

full gel coated liners in the engine room, lazarette, salon and head/shower
storage compartments below all salon cushions

120 volt outlets in cockpit, wetbar, galley, dinette, head and fwd private cabin

Two full hanging closets

Solid teak, crosshatched honeycomb grate at stand up, gelcoated shower stall

Competitive fuel economy for her size with gas engines.
Exceptional fuel economy with modern, lightweight diesels.

Cleopatra eye styled “football” oval portlights

Square D circuit breakers on the 120 volt side complimented by AIRPAX integral breakers for all operating systems, accompanied by clearly numbered and marked electrical wiring

Elegant curved styling on every surface, the fully gel coated shower, every interior bulkhead surface, every door: the curved 90 degree clear lexan sliding cockpit door, the curved staircase, two closet doors, galley & head storage & fwd private cabin solid privacy door & head compartment door.

High water alarm in all bilge compartments tied to horns

Vacuum formed liner in engine room

Nearly wood less hull and stringer design

Timeless Greek inspired stripe/aft hull color design black/silver/ plus (accent color)

Huge self bailing 55’ square foot cockpit

Wetbar with fridge & icemaker & storage for entertaining

Second fridge in salon

Stand up shower in a 33’ vessel

Private master berth forward with full, SOLID separation and electric Star Trek, curved sliding door, in a 33’ vessel

Vacuflush head system with porcelain bowl

Toaster/oven, 2 burner glass top stove & microwave & fridge & lots of drawer storage in the galley

Hidden trash containers built into the galley & head

HUGE head compartment for a 33’ vessel

40 gallon fresh water & 40 gallon waste water tanks integrated into the keel with 100% full gel coated top, bottom & side surfaces .

Fresh and raw water washdown in cockpit

(4) Rodholders, (2) outriggers and (1) downrigger (dealer added)

100% removable aft seating for better fishing capabilities

Full coaming pad covering 100% of cockpit area.

Curved, stainless steel, art deco inspired engine room vents

100% teak gunnels, swim platform and bow pulpit

Curved windshield & radar arch, a trend setting design that set industry standards for years.

That’s all I could think of off the top of my head.

So, gentlemen, your answer, please……

IS SHE WORTHY ?

RWS

[RWS]

And the electric window washers....

and the microswitch operated red lights at the main electrical panel below the helm....

So gentlemen, your responses, please........... IS SHE WORTHY ?

RWS

[todd brinkerhoff]

And the electric window washers....

and the microswitch operated red lights at the main electrical panel below the helm....

So gentlemen, your responses, please........... IS SHE WORTHY ?

RWS

Do you think Harry was a Trekkie??

Sorry RWS, I thought that was a rhetorical question... Of course she's worthy. Have you considered moving to an 11 Meter? What influences you one way or the other?

So the model you have is probably the only truely complete Harry Schoell design? What are the differences with the 10 Meter Mid-Cabin? Was Harry involved with design work outside of the hull design (Delta Conic) for the 11, 12, 13, and 14 Meters? Why did they begin to move away from some of Harry's design ideas? Is the 10 Meter Express the only model that was almost exclusively designed by Schoell?

He had some amazing concepts. It is, in my opinion, unfortunate that Trojan and Schoell couldn't maintain a better relationship.