LEAKS!

[gettaway]

just sayin' that everyone has an opinion,

I work in an industry of a thousand "been there done that, but been there more and done it better than you" mechanics, so you kind of take with a grain of salt, until is get personal, they come in and apply for a job on a daily basis

I remember when those same mechanics would tell you were a fool for using mutli-weight oil, now my Ford 5.4 V-8 uses 5W20, use a heavier oil the gas mileage drops by 3 miles to the gallon and you void the warranty.


science and technology in just the last 20 years has been amazing, diesels are quiet, smooth and don't smoke, you can steer your personal boat with a remote that looks like an X Box controller, and more reliably than the old cable systems,

GPS, radar, cell phones, laptops for 300$

every once and a while it is kind of nice to look outside of our own little world or trades and see whats new and most likely better than than the way "I've always done it"

it's the reason there are trade shows, if you use them for why they exist, you have exposure to thousands of products you never knew existied that just might make your product, project ro job easier, better, faster and last longer......

[wowzer52]

Very good point.

[prowlersfish]

Your should practice what you preach , you would be using the right products then

now some facts 5-20w helps mileage yes 3 mpg ? no maybe .3 if your lucky , if it did save that much every one would be using it . BTW not using it will not void your warranty ( oil still needs to meet specs) . and in a few months there will be a newer type oil required by many of the majors the specs will not be met by anything on the market today .

radar for 300 bucks ?? sure show me .

Get your facts correct not make then up.

Remember trade shows are sales shows more then anything every one there will tell you what they have is the best (and will make you or save money ). Do you go to marine trade shows ? I can send you extra tickits

High tech is great ( sometimes ) so is time proven .
BTW what has hi tech have to do with the stuff you used ?

[gettaway]

refering to advances in electronics, and that you can now buy a lap top for 300 bucks, not a radar.
My previous boat, a 34' CHB trawler had a head in the bucket Furuno 32 mile radar, looked like something out of flash gordon, and was complicated to operate, you had to let your eyes adjust from the 'bucket" to the day or night , when i bought the boat in 1996, the antiquated radar was only 14 years old, I put a new raytheon 16 mile on the boat, was night and day in technology, and now, that raytheon looks like a dinasour with the CRT screen.
I now have a Furuno that was on the boat when I bought it, while it has an LCD diplay, it's nothing like is available today with the NAVNET technology.
that ol' 120 Ford Lehman was a great engine, 1000 lbs, 120 hp and the size of a buick, the new 300 +- HP cummins are smaller, more efficient, smooth and quiet and don't smoke, they self bleed and self diagnose, if you have ever bled the air from a lehman injector pump in rolling seas, you'll appreciate this feature. The lehman was a bullet proof 10,000 hour engine if cared for, but the technology in todays diesels are far superior to the old truck / tractor engine that the lehman was based on, it was truly a great engine, but I would not put them in a new boat / machine today

The weight of the engine oil is based todays machining tolerences that were not possible 20 years ago, again technology, the viscosity will not make an engine more efficient, especially an older engine designed for a heavier oil, in fact it may make an old engine less efficient if the lighter oil does not help the comprssion rings seal, and heavier weight oil can easily make a new enigne less efficient, the tolerences within new engines are so tight now that the engine must work harder when working against a higher viscosity oil, think grease and machine oil, you wouldn't put 20-50 in the head of your vertical mill, as it would cause heat and drag and eventually wear out the quill bearings, kind of the same theory in a modern engine (turbine oil?)

I have a 2010 F150, 5.4 with 5,000 miles on it, the twin to it had the oil changed recently and delo 15-40 was used mistakenly, (we buy it 500 gallons at a time) and the mechanic used the wrong depenser, the driver complained that it acted doggy and the avg mpg indicator went to 13-14 mpg, i get about 16 -17 on mine all the time. they changed the oil and put in 5-20, and the mialge came back

and yes, my 03 yukon, 2 MPG penalty for incorrect oil
06 Dodge Ram, 2 mpg penalty for incorrect oil

SAE oil specs must be met to keep the warranty in effect, but so must the weight. and now with diesel emission regulations, ULS diesels, DPF and exhaust fluids, you MUST use a low ash oil, ULSD and the correct EF, or, you guessed it, void the emission system warranty if a catastrophic failure is traced to incorrect fuel, oil or EF,

Trade shows, yes sales shows, and you can spot a huckster from a mile away, especially if you are talking small town fairs, However, attend a few of these, it'll change your mind on trade shows and the technology available,

SEMA, CONEXPO, NTEA, Powder and Bulk, ASTA and a host of west coast boat shows, (for personal fun)

silicone, technology,

all glues and sealants have everything to do with technology, sailors used to seal wood planks with pitch, craftsmen performing wood working projects used glues ;similar to elmers and contractors sealed with acrlyic caulking,, now there are products that will adhere and cure underwater, tapes that will hold car parts together, (trim panels) gorilla glue, silicone, JB weld, hell, duct tape, heck we use a metal tape (FAA approved) to repair the leading edges on helo blades to keep it in service until a permanent repair can be made.
I'd bet that if you have a recent year vehicle, that the valve cover and oil pan gaskets are silcone or some version of silicone,

Technology is the continual advancement in any product that makes it better .

Sticking your head in the sand and ignoring technolgy becuase your reasoning is that this is the way I have always done it, so it must be right, guarantees that technology and your competition will pass you by.

silicone today is not the crap we used to use to seal the shower, is cures better, has better adhesion, creates a seal that is impervious to most chemicals and soaps we use daliy on our boats and equipment and it is a good product. however it is not the catch all end all of sealants, none are.

I do not know what kind of sealant that was used originally on the trojan rails bases, but it was dried out, cracked or missing, and i'll bet the boat had leaked for years, I just feel lucky that it does not appear to have caused core damage, one blessing of living in an arid region and salt water environment (wood preservative)
I grew up on the Mississippi,(dodging barges in a alumacraft with a 9.9 honda) boated and fished the lakes of Minnesota, Wisconsin and Oklahoma, bought my first boat at 13, bought my first car at 15, and with the thousands of projects to cars, boats, planes and homes I know one thing for sure, I learn something new everyday, and that guy you think ain't so smart - has probably forgotten more things than I'll ever learn.

"Believing you know it all, will guarantee you learn nothing - and achieve even less." (unknown author)

This is a 300 HP Isuzu enigne that was in our Hitachi 450Z excavator / drill we repowered it with a new TIER 3 Cummins 325 HP and about 1300 ft lb torque, the Isuzu is about 1050 ftlbs. the Cummins is 1300 lbs lighter than the Isuzu , we had to ad counter weight to the machine to keep the balance correct on the rotation bearing. Technology

[img]

[prowlersfish]

"Believing you know it all, will guarantee you learn nothing - and achieve even less " you should listen to your self.

good point but trust me I am more up to date then you are when it comes to oils , and apparently much more in touch with real world use of marine sealants .

a 120 Ford Lehman is not larger the a 300 hp Cummins (B) (marine) be it a 12 valve or 24 . Just looked a a pair of the Lehman's this week.

( if your talk about a QSD thats not a real cummins ( made by another co)its a hoped up pos)

This below is just my (and a few other opinion) just real life experience
Now as far as radar goes you can keep the new tech . The boat behind me has the latest and greatest Ray marine (over 12k wholesale ) been replace 2 times and still is not half the radar of his old Furno was, I have a 2 year old Koden that i just did a up grade on ( this is commercial stuff) And I believe my old low tech ( and lower power) furuno also worked better .( the upgrade made it closer ) Not impressed with the new Garmin radar ether ( its ok but..), . Not talking bells and whistles talking about the radar opp.

the positive on the new high tech radar is that it makes it available for smaller boats and can be user friendly ( great for newbies ), but when I need I need it I can count on trusting low tech. Very few radars that I have not used .

[gettaway]

roger that prowlerfish, and that is where we will leave it.

[prowlersfish]

I just edit my post.

[Big D]

New technology? Don't even get me started on that one. Don't get me wrong, I like it, I really do, the bells and whistles it affords are great. But finding something that's actually made to last, now that's a challenge.....we can start a whole new thread on that one!!

[Molly Too]

Hey Ron,

On the treated blocks, be careful. The old pressure treating chemical (CCA) was substantially removed from the market and replaced with a new one (ACQ). This is very corrosive on fasteners, especially aluminum. Even smaller sizes of Stainless are attacked. You can still by CCA where marine lumber is sold (you can still use it on docks). But if you're getting home center stuff, it’s probably ACQ.

[rbcool]

Hey Ron,

On the treated blocks, be careful. The old pressure treating chemical (CCA) was substantially removed from the market and replaced with a new one (ACQ). This is very corrosive on fasteners, especially aluminum. Even smaller sizes of Stainless are attacked. You can still by CCA where marine lumber is sold (you can still use it on docks). But if you're getting home center stuff, it’s probably ACQ.

Thanks Mel
I remember that from '02 when they changed it around here. When I started doing it on my Tri I forgot and bought a 2x4 from Lowes. Got to my slip, cut 3 @ 10", pre-drilled the holes, then when chiseling them to make them fit had the "DUH!!" moment
I then went to the local yard and paid about a million$ for the right stuff

Ron

[prowlersfish]

High tech is ok but in many cases its unproven due to the rush to have the latest . Bells and whistles added that take away from the core function.

I work with hi-tech every day and see problems in the Field

I like high tech when it works ,But I will take time proven anytime .There is no lab test that can duplicate real life in the real world .

[gettaway]

I guess we all must weigh the advantages against the disadvantages and our ability to afford (and use) what we want versus what we need.

I have only NEEDED radar a handfull of times, when I brought the Trojan down from Wilmington to San Diego , I made a stop in Oceanside, a tough entrance in the daytime, the night was pitch black, if it were not for the GPS and the radar it would have been a scary ride, I was able to follow the coast line with radar and keep my position in perspective with the chart plotter, charts would have been diffcult being alone, on the flybridge and in the dark.
once i got within a couple of miles I could see the city lighting, and the traffic signals (street)at the harbor entrance made finding the channel range marker and the entrance bouys difficult, when I looked away from the range maker, it was hard to find it again quickly because other green lights.

The Radar drew the harbor jetty and entrance so I had a reference point of where to steer.

Another time we took three boats to Ensenada Mexico to have them hauled and painted, we went to the Coronado Islands and spent the night, woke up the next morning to dense fog, again with GPS and Radar, we took off, another trawler in the group had an old simrad radar but couldnt get it to keep images on the screen, so he tucked in close to me and we buddy boated 6 hours in the fog, there are tuna cages off of the islands that have radar reflectors and the real fear once into Mexico is other boats, a lot of fisherman down there

When my my firend and I took the Hatteras up to Catalina we made land fall at 9:30 at night, another dark night but not as bad as Oceanside, however the Hatteras has the latest and gratest Raymarine. Color Screen, chartplotter and sounder all on the same screen, you can split, overlay or scroll to individual functions (radar, plotter, sounder)

I would have it if I could justify the expense, but I can't justify the price for the use of my boat.

[prowlersfish]

Thing about radar I don't leave home without it . I when for years without radar . Now that I have it its a must for me , when my last one acted up I replaced it asap .

I can run without it or gps or my life raft But I won't . all in what you are use to .

would you leave the dock without a vhf ? with some they think a cell phone is all the need , Thats not me . ( I know the vhf is difrent and more needed then a radar just makinf a point)

I guess I am just spoiled

[gettaway]

well, we once again agree, after having radar, I would not want venture off shore our even outside the bay without out it.
VHF- can't even fathom someone in a boat without it, but I hear the vhf calls all the time of skippers calling on someone elses behalf to send help becuase of (fuel, engine problems, fire, taking on water, etc) and didn't have vhf on board and out of cell range, crazy stuff gambling with your life like that

[rbcool]

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