Marine Survey! Why get one?

[gjrylands]

I’m posting this for the benefit of those that don’t know what a marine survey is, or have not seen what an actual survey contains. Generally, the more expensive a boat is the more you need to have it surveyed.

Some conceder a survey to be a waste of money. I, personally, am not one of them. Anyone new to boating should certainly have a boat they are planning on buying surveyed to protect themselves. An independent surveyor should have no interest in the sale of the boat. Don't allow the broker, dealer, or owner provide the surveyor. He works for you and can give you an objective view of the condition and seaworthiness of the boat.

What is a marine survey?
A marine survey is a detailed report of the inspection of the condition and seaworthiness of a boat. There are different types of surveys, depending on how the survey is to be used.

Who is qualified to perform a marine survey?
Anyone can perform a survey, but for the survey to be recognized by the marine community, the surveyor must be qualified. A surveyor earns his credentials and they are recognized by several different organizations. The three most common are the SAMS (The Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors, Inc.), NAMS (National Association of Marine Surveyors), and AMS (Accredited Marine Surveyors). Before you hire a surveyor make sure their survey will be recognized by your bank or insurance company.

Why do we need a survey?
There are several reasons why we would want a survey.
Peace of mind in knowing the vessel is sound and seaworthy.
Protecting your investment - knowing what you are buying is worth what you are paying.
Covers bank requirements if financing is being done.
Covers insurance requirements if needed.
The survey report provides a "work list" of deficiencies or maintenance items the vessel needs and helps in maintaining or upgrading the vessel after purchase.

How much does a survey cost?
Surveys vary in price depending on what type of survey is being done, the size of the boat, and how comprehensive of a survey you want.

I went to a marine surveyor’s web site and copied the following information from it. I don’t know or endorse him as a surveyor, but the information in his site is informative.


http://www.huntmarinesurvey.com/index.html

Peter A. Hunt Marine Surveyor

Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors - Accredited Marine Surveyor #698


Pre-Purchase Yacht Surveys (Full Condition Surveys):
If you are purchasing a yacht a full condition survey becomes an important part of the purchase process. After you have decided upon a particular vessel, and usually after a offer has been made and accepted with the understanding (usually written) that the sale is "subject to survey". The surveyor is then called in to evaluate the vessel. After the survey the buyer may use the survey report to re-negotiate certain unexpected findings or issues that may come up during the survey. In some instances findings may be such that the buyer decides that the vessel does not meet his expectations and the deal may be ended. If bank financing is planned the bank will usually also require the survey and depending on the age of the vessel the insurance coverage may also require the report.
Having a full condition survey on a vessel being purchased has these advantages:
Peace of mind in knowing the vessel is sound and seaworthy.
Protecting your investment - knowing what you are buying is worth what you are paying.
Covers bank requirements if financing is being done.
Covers insurance requirements if needed.
The survey report provides a "work list" of deficiencies or maintenance items the vessel needs and helps in maintaining or upgrading the vessel after purchase.
In many cases talking to the surveyor about a particular vessel before agreeing on a purchase can help in deciding if that particular vessel is for you. Surveyors know most of the common re-occurring problems on the popular production boats. Experience at surveying hundreds of vessels can help guide you in pitfalls or problems that may arise in a certain design or construction. As we do not have an interest in the sale we can tell it like it is. Talking to a surveyor before even going to look at a vessel may guide you to look for certain problem areas or things to be aware of. The buyer may use the survey report to re-negotiate certain unexpected findings or issues that may come up during the survey.

INSURANCE SURVEYS (CONDITION AND VALUATION)
Most insurance companies require a "C & V" or Condition and Valuation survey - what most of us call an "insurance survey", on vessels that are usually ten years old and older. Sometimes they will require one if the vessel is newer or if extensive repairs or work has been done.
Insurance surveys are done for the owner of the vessel and it is usually the owner that commissions (and pays for) the survey. However, in some cases the insurance company may commission the surveyor to inspect the vessel on its own behalf (and at its own expense). In most cases however, the insurance company notifies the owner that it requires a "C & V survey" by a certain date to continue the coverage. It is then up to the owner to commission (and pay for) a survey and forward it to the insurance company. The insurance company may require this survey on initial start-up of the policy and may require a re-survey at certain intervals - usually 5 to 7 years but sometimes as little as 3 years.
Insurance surveys inspect the vessel for structural integrity and proper installation of systems and proper safety gear. Insurance companies what to know if the vessel they are covering is reasonably sound and that there are no obvious flaws that may cause a loss potential (the "Condition" part of a C & V). Basically, the C & V survey reports on the safety and seaworthiness of the vessel. A value is then determined for vessel (the Value part of C & V).
Insurance surveys generally inspect the vessel for the same structural integrity and proper installation of systems as the Pre-Purchase survey but unlike the Pre-Purchase survey, systems are not usually operated and secondary and minor deficiencies are not generally reported in a detailed sense. A C & V survey is sort of like a "de-tuned" Pre-Purchase survey. Hence, the survey usually costs less. If you are purchasing a boat and need to get insurance a Pre-Purchase Survey can be used as a C & V.
Most insurance companies will accept a C & V survey with the vessel in the water, however, sometimes they may require it to be out of the water. If your insurance requires you to get a survey when the vessel is in the water ask them if an "in water" survey is acceptable before proceeding with the survey. If your vessel is out for winter storage and you know you need a C & V survey, try to get it before the vessel is launched.
WHAT DOES A SURVEY COVER?
A Pre-Purchase survey (on a fiberglass vessel - see end of this section for comments on wooden hulls and other materials) generally involves the following:
The hull is inspected for distortions or unfairness. It is inspected for any visible evidence of grounding or other damage or repair. The fiberglass laminate is percussion sounded - this may reveal delamination or problems in the laminates well possible laminate blisters. Visual inspection for osmotic blisters and moisture meter testing of surface if conditions are favorable.
Interior structural elements of the hull are visually inspected (where possible without removal of fixed cabinetry) for soundness and security. This includes bulkheads, stringers and tabbing. The hull to deck joint is inspected (again, where visible) for soundness and security.
The deck is inspected generally by using a percussion hammer to find possible deck core delamination. Moisture meter readings are also used where appropriate and if conditions permit to help discover if there is any water intrusion into the deck core.

All through hull fittings are examined for corrosion and operability.

Depth and speed transducers, drain plugs, ground plates, trim tabs etc are all inspected. Propellers, shafts, struts and cutlass bearings are all inspected for visual condition.
Steering gear components are inspected for visual condition and installation and are operated. Rudders are inspected for condition, sailboat rudders (usually cored fiberglass) are percussion sounded and moisture metered if possible. Rudder supports and bearings inspected for structural soundness and condition.
Deck hardware inspected for condition and mounting security. This includes mooring gear, bow and grab rails, deck fittings, windows and portholes, hatches etc. Anchoring gear is inspected for condition and suitability. Canvas enclosures and dodgers inspected for condition. Cockpit equipment inspected. Helm equipment inspected. Electronics are operated where possible.
The cosmetic exterior of the vessel (gelcoat, trim, woodwork, upholstery, etc) is inspected and commented on. The cosmetic interior of the vessel (cabinetry, upholstery, trim, carpeting, fixtures etc) is inspected and commented on.
All systems are turned on and operated where possible and their observed operation commented on. Systems operated and operation commented on usually would include: navigation lights, horns, navigation electronics, spotlights, windlass, fresh water system, washdown system, toilet system, cabin air conditioning system, galley stove(s), fans, lights, vents, bilge pumps, entertainment systems etc.
Electrical system is visually inspected for proper installation and operation of all breakers and switches. Battery voltage at rest and with charge appliances on is usually checked.
All through hull hoses and connections inspected and operation of all seacocks commented on.
Engine (including generator) installation, mounts and beds inspected for proper installation and observed condition. The engine with its hoses and electrical and control connections is visually inspected for observed condition. Fuel system visually inspected for proper installation and observed condition commented on. Engine cooling and exhaust system visually inspected for proper installation and observed condition commented on. Bilge ventilation system inspected and commented on. Transmission and shaft connection visually inspected and commented on.
Generally, engine inspection is limited to exterior visual inspection and comments on observed performance where operated. Internal engine inspection is not generally done however, compression testing on some gasoline engines may be done at additional cost. Compression testing on outboard engines is usually done and is usually included in the base survey fee. Oil analysis can be done however, unless the number of hours on the oil in the engine is known the analysis report is generally meaningless and generally a series of reports over a time period is needed to evaluate a potential trend.
A sea trial may be conducted as part of the survey. This usually involves the following: The engines are brought up to temperature and then run up through their power range to full rpm. Rpm is noted against speed, rpm is usually observed on the vessel’s instruments only. Temperature and voltage on the vessel’s instruments are also noted and compared against volt meter readings taken at the battery and temperature gun readings taken on the engine block. Temperature gun readings may be taken on other parts of the engine cooling system to help assess the operational condition of the cooling and exhaust system.
The engine is visually observed while operating to assess any movement or problems with the mounts and beds, to observe any potential leaks in engine systems, to listen for any unusual or improper noises or vibrations. Transmission is shifted into all positions and performance observed. Propeller shaft is observed under load to comment on potential shaft vibration (alignment or bearing problems) and stuffing box performance.
Generators are loaded to observe their performance and sizing to the vessel’s loads.
On sailing vessels the mast and rigging are inspected. If the mast is stepped inspection is limited to observations from the deck. The mast is inspected for damage, corrosion, dents, straightness etc. The mast base and step in particular are inspected for corrosion particularly if it is stepped on the keel (if the mast is stepped this may be limited). The mast step is inspected for soundness and security, if it is deck stepped the deck support structure is inspected for condition. Standing rigging swages are visually inspected for cracking etc. All rigging connections and fittings are visually inspected. Running rigging is inspected. If the mast is down, the mast head is inspected as is the spreader fittings. Winches and sail handling gear are inspected for general condition.
Bagged sails can only be spread out for inspection if there is a clean and dry area to do that in (often not available) and inspected for wear, chafe or damage. Sails on roller furling units or on main booms cannot be safely unfurled at dock side or with the vessel hauled but may be unfurled with the vessel on a mooring or underway on a sea trial if conditions permit. Sail set performance cannot be judged unless the vessel is under sail in suitable wind conditions.
The ballast keel is inspected for fairness and tightness to the hull. The keel bolts are visually inspected only where the heads are visible in the bilge (not physically possible elsewhere without removal of the keel). Hull support structure for the keel is inspected for cracking, movement, or damage where access is possible.
Wooden vessels are more involved than fiberglass, however, the general process is the same. Every accessible structural component of a wood hull is visually inspected and percussion sounded for soundness where appropriate. Fastenings may be pulled but only with the owner’s permission. Since wooden boats generally have a much greater range of condition and problems than fiberglass boats I do a more involved initial walk-through before starting the actual survey. This often discovers big problems that may prompt the buyer to back out of the survey before we commit to it. Contact me directly for comments and advice if you are considering a wooden vessel.

OTHER SERVICES
Parked your vessel on a seawall? Tried to fit a 30’ boat into a 25’ slip? Used your propeller as a depth sounder?
Peter Hunt provides full marine survey services such as damage claims, damage consulting, repair supervision, expert witness, etc.
If your vessel sustains damage, usually you report it first to the insurance company and often they will send out a surveyor or an adjuster (at their expense) to inspect the damage. They may request you to get an estimate of repair from a repair yard. Usually the claim is then settled. Sometimes you may need to hire a surveyor on your own to represent you if you feel the settlement by the insurance company is not proper, or if you are seeking resolution through an uninsured party.
There may be other unique situations that you may need an independent surveyor to work with you or a situation.

Rates
My basic rates (subject to change) are as follows:
Pre-Purchase surveys:
Vessels 30’ and under - $14.00/ft.
Vessels 31’ to 50' - $16.00/ft
Vessels over 50' - $18.00/ft.
Insurance surveys:
All vessels - $12/ft to maximum of $450
Appraisals:
All vessels - $8/ft to maximum of $350
Travel:
Above basic surveys include 100 miles driving in the per foot fee. Distances over 100 miles (measured round trip from Norton, Mass) are billed at .40 per mile.
Per hour rates: $75 per hour.

Sample surveys - Pre-Purchase Surveys
The first three pages of my reports are somewhat standard specification pages describing the various systems in a template sort of form. Banks and insurance companies like these pages as it gives them a quick overview of the vessel. However, the real "meat" of a survey report is the deficiencies of the vessel. This tells you the things that are wrong with the vessel.
Survey reports by their nature sound negative as we are reporting the deficiencies of the vessel. The standard is "good, average condition for the age". If an item does not meet that - ie is defective in some manner or below average it is usually written in the report as a deficiency. Since detailing everything on a boat that is "good" would take volumes, the opposite is done: the deficiencies are recorded, if it is not mentioned in the report it is generally assumed in good average condition.
Many American surveyors list these deficiencies under a section called; "Recommendations". This area may list minor cosmetic scratches to major problems like fuel tank leaks. I do not use this format. I use the British system of survey reporting which puts deficiencies in a hierarchy of degree. This format is much easier for assessing the important problems with a vessel and can be used as a priority work list in addressing the deficiencies. These three levels that I use are:
Recommendations (pertaining to safety and seaworthiness):
In my reports "Recommendations" are primary items dealing with safety and seaworthiness. I report to ABYC and U.S. Coast Guard standards along with some other standards and specific standards developed at Robert N. Kershaw Inc. over the years. If a deficiency impacts on one of these standards of safety and seaworthiness it is reported as a Recommendation. This states the problem and states the correction needed. Examples would be deficiencies in fuel systems, safety gear, through hull fittings etc.

Secondary Deficiencies:
These are items that do not meet the safety/seaworthiness test but are generally items that usually have either a dollar value needed to correct them, items that could affect the overall value of the vessel, or items that may need a more extensive discussion in the report. Examples would be osmotic blistering on the bottom, air conditioning system not working, leaking deck hatches etc. Usually in this catagory stating the correction is not necessarily done.
Minor Deficiencies:
These items are usually small, cosmetic in nature items and general wear and tear. Examples would be scratches and dings, light bulbs out, dirty bilges, etc.
Notes and Comments:
This is the last section of the report and covers general notes and comments about the vessel and may comment on specific situations during the survey. Usually results of sea trials is placed in this area.
A value is usually placed on the vessel using normal appraisal standards. This value is usually placed at the end of this section.
As to not over-burden this web site I will not provide a sample of the first three specification pages (ok, I really cannot figure out how to get the template form to properly reproduce on the web!). Below is the three level hierarchy from an actual survey on a 28’ sailboat.

Actual Marine Survey

PETER A. HUNT Marine Surveyor
Yacht Survey Report Vessel: MAGIC
RECOMMENDATIONS (Pertaining to safety and seaworthiness)
1) There is no safety screen on the fuel vent fitting on the transom as required. The fuel vent hose is not approved hose (plain vinyl). Upgrade hose to type A approved and install proper fuel vent fitting.
2) The bilge pump did not suck water. Check hose for obstructions, leaks or clogging of flapper valves. Fix as needed. Bilge has oily water in it - clean out.
3) Both bow running lights were not working. Wiring for port side under the anchor locker forward was found just twisted together and very corroded. Replace wiring with proper crimp type and get working as needed.
4) Wiring at DC fuse panel was found in poor condition. Connections are all made with house type wire nuts. Wiring and panel shows general corrosion. Clean up panel, re-do wiring connections with proper crimp connections and wiring as needed.
5) Wiring to mast is cut and taped up at deck and mast. Mast steaming light and anchor light are not working. Wire to make these required navigation lights operational.
6) The VHF radio only receives one weather station. Replace with new unit. The antenna wire connection at the mast is poor. Replace.
7) The wiring connection to the Loran unit (the splice in the wire to the unit) is exposed and the wire slightly frayed (suggest replacing unit with more user friendly new GPS system - although this Raytheon unit is a good loran if you can figure out how to use it).
8 ) Wiring running by port cockpit locker hangs down and it vulnerable to being pulled. Splice in for spot light plug in uses cheap automotive connections that are corroding. Tag up the wiring and remove old plug in if not using or make proper splice.
9) Forward deck hatch hold up arms are missing and starboard side frame mount is broken off. Install means of holding hatch open to prevent possible falling and injury.
10) All seacocks were found frozen due to lack of use. Maintenance so that they can be closed by hand in an emergency. (the two un-used head seacocks that are shut and capped are ok).
11) The engine cooling water intake has an improper strainer fitted. This strainer is designed to filter fresh drinking water and is too small and fine for the engine. Provide proper engine strainer to insure reliable engine cooling water flow.
12) Engine fuel filters have reportedly not been changed in over 3 years. Change the filters. Consider upgrading primary filter (filter mounted off the engine) with a modern Racor spin on type filter with a clear bowl bottom and mount it in a more accessible location, although the old style filter is ok - it is less convenient to change.
13) The fixed mast to boom goose neck has been replaced with a sliding type. This is more dangerous as there is nothing to support it forward unless a positive stop limiting how far it can travel down is fitted. Either replace the fixed one or provide a substantial limiting stop at a safe distance up the mast.
14) Provide up to date distress signals and other required safety gear as needed.

SECONDARY DEFICIENCIES:
This vessel reportedly was storm damaged in 1977. The hull shows old damage to the hull both port and starboard side in the area of the turn of the bilge about amidships for 5 or 6 feet or more. It appears from the evidence that the vessel may have blown ashore and was pounded on her turn of the bilge on one side and another vessel blew down and pounded on her now up-turned other turn of the bilge.
Both areas show extensive gelcoat craze cracking. The topsides have been re-painted and the interior liner had been cut away and then replaced on the port side in this amidships area indicating that a repair was made to the hull here. The inner hull liner shows many areas of both craze cracking and stress cracking in these areas. The port side shows the worst damage.
The hull was fully and carefully percussion sounded and revealed no delamination except one very small area to be detailed below. The craze cracking is just surface gelcoat and apparently any hull delamination was repaired properly. The inner liner where stress cracked was not repaired in many areas although this does not appear to have affected the overall integrity of the hull stiffness - there is no indication of hull movement or flexing over 23 years of use.
The biggest deficiency of this storm damage seems to be the cosmetic degrading of the topsides. They were painted with probably some form of linear polyurethane although the job was not well done (it may have been painted more than once). The finish now is weathered, dull and blotchy. The gelcoat craze cracks show through particularly on the port side.
The keel shows some roughness and abrasion - typical to grounding, on it leading edge up high and then as typically on the bottom - although this could have been from other groundings as well.
There was found a small stress crack (not a glecoat craze crack) about 3" long on the port side at the turn of the bilge about amidships (in the damaged area). This crack sounds delaminated immediately around it (about 1" or less). This is possibly only in the surface fairing of the old repair (there appears to be a white material over a gray material that is typically a high build fairing compound used in repairs). How deep the crack goes if into the laminate at all could not be told. Recommend grinding it back to investigate and patch back as needed. The small local nature of this crack does not affect hull integrity and it also appears to be of old standing. The rest of the hull and deck show no other signs of structural damage or repair.
The propeller shaft cutless bearing was found about worn out. The shaft has about a 1/16" of play in it. The stuffing box looks good but obviously the condition of the packing cannot be told until the vessel is launched. No history of the last repacking is known. The hose clamps on the stern tube hose are showing some rusting although still are good. Monitor for worsening as time goes by.
The rudder percussion sounded generally delaminated from its core and the moisture meter found it wet - not unusual. There is no cracking and the blade is stiff. The rudder is heavily built and the Cape Dory rudders do not have a history of general failures. The rudder is in usable condition - normal for its age.
The deck was found in generally very good condition however, there is some water intrusion into the core (tracked with a Tramex Skipper moisture meter) at most of the deck fittings. This intrusion is local to the fittings and the deck is not wet overall. There is only some light spotty delamination at the very bow area and some on the port side deck near the chainplates. Suggest re-bedding all deck fittings over a period of time. The gelcoat craze cracks noted on the deck are typical of Cape Dory and are in the gelcoat and cosmetic only.
The cockpit sole has water intrusion in at the rudder post joint. This is a typical Cape Dory problem. There is some small craze cracks at the teak trim ring and the sole has some delamination around the tiller area. However, it is not advanced and the sole is still stiff. Suggest removing teak trim and sealing the rudder post to cockpit joint to stop water from coming in.
The chainplates are fastened to a large steel plate that is welded to bars that are fiberglassed into the side of the hull. These plates are showing rusting due possibly from water leaking by the toe rail and life line stanchion bolts. While these plates are thick and the rust not critical at this time, continued rusting will ultimately have an affect. They should be treated in some manner to stop the rusting.

MINOR DEFICIENCIES INCLUDE:
Stern rail slightly bent.
Port aft cleat horn bent - gouges in deck under horn - cosmetic.
Old fastener holes on aft deck in various places - not cosmetically well finished.
Small split in starboard teak coaming at the winch tower mount.
Starboard forward downhaul block on jib track shows cheek corrosion.
Large craze crack on aft cabin bulkhead at clinometer - cosmetic.
Wood trim around engine instrument panel is loose, panel behind cracked.
Following cabin lights are out:
starboard forward cabin
starboard forward main cabin
light over galley
head light fixture is loose but works
Mast base bent out a little to starboard - no big deal.
Deck coring exposed in anchor chain pipe - seal with epoxy.
Speed unit removed.
Pressure water pump wire connection broken off - unit not working.
Old double faucet removed from sink - old holes show, looks bad.
The teak work on deck is in need of re-finishing. The toe rail port side about amidship shows an area at the scarf joint that had cracked and was filled with epoxy and another area aft near a scupper slot. The wood is well glued at this time if it doesn’t look quite as good.
The cabin needs a good cleaning and some re-finishing and re-decorating. The surfaces show wear and age although are in physically good condition. There is some indications of the toe rail screws and the life line stanchion bolts are leaking in places. There are some water drip stains in the forward cabin under some of these fittings. Re-bed the fittings to stop if it is needed.

[alexander38]

i think we all know all this. but at the same time the inspector has a duty to do thier job and do it well. and a lot don't and the prove is in the reading of this form and others

[pilgrim32]

Very informative info I echoe that a good survey is worth it's weight in gold but unfortunitly I made a purchaes without getting one knowing you get what you pay for in a private boat purchase also purchase price was far less than a good survey I know "buyer beware". Time I have brains i don't i quess thats why they put erasers on pencils I figured with all the knowledge on this site i can adapt, imprevise, and overcome any problems I've overlooked only time will tell pilgrim32

[jimbo36]

Gerry, Wow! That was a lot of info! I have had several surveys done on my behalf and can say, without hesitation, this explaination is 100% correct. I would add, as stated in my previous post, make sure you attend the survey inspection. 1, You will learn more about boats then you can imagine. 2. Ask questions and take notes. This way you can compare the final written survey to what was said by the surveyer. Also, most surveyer's inspect major issues first ie; stringers, keel, chines, etc. and you could save $ by ending the process if major problems exist. The Surveyor will usually charge a nominal fee if he is not required to go further. I have had this happen on 2 occasions. 3. The Surveyor will know that you will hold him accountable for his representations. I have never had a Surveyor object to my being present. One note, the Surveyor does not inspect the mechanical components like engines, drives, generators, A/C units, etc, so hire a good mechanic to perform a comprehensive inspection including, compression tests, oil samples, reverse gear operation, etc. This should include a "sea trial" You will be glad you did. There are thousands of horror stories out there.

[TC]

Ask around before hiring someone.
I was standing in a boat with the survey in my hand reading it. It stated "no visible water leaks". Well looking up, the headliner was stained around 2 hatches and drips of water were hitting my wife's head from a third source. The survey identified the engines incorrectly. Said they were working properly. There was wiring disconnected from the engines and sensors broken.
The survey appeared to be no more than a check off list.
The marina I deal with once told me he watched a surveyor do a boat in less than 10 minutes.The guy never even removed the moor cover.
Make sure you get references.

[LSP]

Great info. Gerry .... I believe the survey on my F32 was worth every penny. I used a woman that went over everything with a fine tooth comb. Alexander38, sorry that your experience was a bad one.

[g36]

not that needs to be said again but i agree totally on the survey. i was present and the first boat i had surveyed showed all kinds of problems i would have missed and i ended up not buying that one, survey saved me a lot of grief. when i had my f32 surveyed i used the same guy and again i was present and he was more than happy to show me suspect issues and answer any questions i had. we took a day including hauling and surveyor sea trial. in my report i had a very detailed account of my boat including pictures. he also took oil samples. when it was received i even negotiated the price down again.only thing that was of any real issue to me was the seacocks all needing replacing so was able to reduce the purchase price by that amount also. i would agree that the survey is mandatory. but do ask around i would find a surveyor that has nothing to do with the sale of the vessel or owner of the boat. you should make sure the guy is working in your best interest not someone elses. the previous owner of my boat showed me a survey that had been done by someone else and it seemed, as mentioned by someone else on the forum, more like a check list of items. heck i could do that.

[Mac32]

Gerry, Thanks for starting a new survey post, on my "Previous owners post" I was really only wanting to vent in a forum that would know more about what I am saying than my dog (he just tilts his head and gives me a crazy look, not unlike my wife....)

At first I felt like I should have shouldered the blame for using a lame surveyor like most that get the short end of the tiller. But the one thing I did realize throughout this is almost all big boat owners (unless brought up in a boat environment) learn the need for a good surveyor on their second boat due to a learning process on the first boat (if they are a DIY boater).

So I am now thinking I an not really a nit whit boater who makes poor choices of surveyors and is deserving of the head scratches that follow, but one who started down a path full of educational enlightenment based on my LACK of experience. Kind of like life....it was a choice of something I didn't know anything about.

So the second time around we should be better educated in choosing a surveyor (and boat), and the third, and fourth........

Sooooo, who wants to buy my first boat........

[alexander38]

hey guys it's not that i would but a boat without one i like most of us in boating are tried of some of so called pro with all the letters behind thier names ripping us off and digging in to are pockets and they do it knowing that it cost us more to try to get it back. and we should have an automatic recourse if we find a safety item they missed ie cracked seacock and if you all think about how many post have we seen about fast and lazy guys doing this kind of stuff