Need a lot of info- Wait until you see this project...

[Tcoz2000]

Ok, this boat was abandoned here about 20 years ago by a friend in the military who was going to be in Alaska. He never came back. So this boat has sat here since, unprotected from mother nature. I have this brainstorm to rebuild the entire boat, new wood, the works, all by hand. I am new to boating though, and need some info to know what I am working with...for starters....
Hull ID # nowheres to be found.
I do know it is a presumably early 70's model F-25, measures 25' long, not sure about the beam, I think it's just shy of 9'.
Have not had much luck identifying the motor, hard to see down there for block numbers. The interior is shot, as well as the exterior. It will need all new woodwork. The rudder system is intact and working. The entire cockpit area is missing, as well as any sign of wiring in this thing. I have yet to find any dataplates that would help me out. Motor is probably going to need to be replaced, but I would like to know what the heck it is to start with, as well as the transmission. I know the pictures are somewhat vague, but trust me, you don't want to see more. I think this will be a very in depth project, and I plan on building an entire new custom cabin based on the origional design(or whats left of it).
If ANYONE can provide me with some information about this piece such as a particular model or good year estimate, as well as the motor info and transmission, I would appreciate it. I'm sure I will have many more questions as I get this under way, but meanwhiles, what does this beast look like besides a neglected and abused Trojan?

http://www.spencersnowbirds.com/phpweb/ ... /front.jpg

http://www.spencersnowbirds.com/phpweb/ ... ntleft.jpg

http://www.spencersnowbirds.com/phpweb/ ... t/left.jpg

http://www.spencersnowbirds.com/phpweb/ ... motor1.jpg

http://www.spencersnowbirds.com/phpweb/ ... motor2.jpg

http://www.spencersnowbirds.com/phpweb/ ... motor3.jpg

http://www.spencersnowbirds.com/phpweb/ ... arleft.jpg

http://www.spencersnowbirds.com/phpweb/ ... trans1.jpg

[chucka]

It looks like Trojan F25 to me that already had one round of rebuilding on the superstructure. Here is a 1974 model from the photo page of Trojanboats.net


(see http://www.trojanboats.net/TB%20Pictures.htm for more photos including a 1972.

From your photos, the engine looks like a chrysler LM318 which was common in these boats. Here are links to some phots of a couple of 318s that were rebuilt/restored.

http://www.putfile.com/vabeach1234/images/9734
http://www.marineengine.com/discus/mess ... 4980.shtml

Before you start this project, you should put together a budget. You can buy a mid- 70's Trojan F25 or F26 in more or less running condition for less than $10,000. (search http://www.boattrader.com) At that price it will likely need work, but will probably be much be a much better starting point for you. I guranetee, even doing all the work yourself, that you will spend a lot more than that on parts and material to put this boat back into seaworthy condition. Also check out the stringers that support the engine. If they are rotted, they can be fixed, but it is quite a large job, and you may be better off starting elsewhere. Of course if you are in it for the project then go for it, but you will be in for a long haul and a lot of money.

If you do decide to go ahead, don't trash that engine. Its probably not worth trying to fix, but there are parts like the bell housing, intake manifold, oil pan, valve covers, timing cover, etc. that should be usable and would be expensive to replace. A re-manufactured long block (assembled block with cylinder heads should be available for about $2,000) You will need to spend a lot more to dress it out, but can probably save over $1,000 if you can salvage the parts I mentioned above.

Lots a Luck,
ChuckA

[Tcoz2000]

Thanks Chuck, you really gave me some helpful info, I'm still researching what you sent me. What about the trans? What kind is it and is it servicable or would I likely need a new one also. Thanks again for a lot of great info. I'm in this for the project, and trust me, if the boat wasn't sitting here for free, it wouldn't be here. I see a piece of junk with a lot of potential over a couple years. Were those 318's good motors for power and efficiency or should I maybe look into repowering with a different motor?

[RWS]

Better take a reality check and consider taking your budget and doubling it. Then consider the hours it will take to get this vessel seaworthy. Increase that by a factor of at least 5.

Cars end up in scrapyards, boats end up in a variety of places.

Metal rusts and in most cases can be restored.

Wood rots.

Is this a reasonable project for a newbie ?

RWS

[Tcoz2000]

You are 100% correct- the mechanical end of the budget is going to be the worst- And I have no budget for this project. I am researching what I can about the mechanical items I am missing as those are the worst costs. My father in law is a wood craftsman by trade, and figures on a hardwood deck front and sides, with new walls and cabinetry down below, his cost for materials not including everything he has laying around is estimated around $600. The rudder and engine supports are 100%, water and mold never found their way in there. If it had, I would NOT want to tackle any such job. Time is nothing more than that. If its not finished for 3 years, well fine, it's protected meanwhiles.
My biggest concerns are the mechanical components. Will most likely drop a new block in, new carb, need exhaust manifolds, hoses and cooling components, plus the rest of the stuff I dont have to make her tick. Upgrade the ignition system and motors good. Get tranny replaced or serviced, good there. Need prop shaft, and probably new seals here and there. When it's finished, it'll be something.
Good project for a newbie, maybe not. Not easy by any means. More suitable for parking in front of a local clam shack as a sea wreck? Ya.
But when done, I'll know a few things. EVERYTHING about that vessel, inside and out. I'll know it's physically and structurally sound, it's mechanically sound, and that it won't sink, unless some jag hits something with it. With the help of some money, it'll be good as new, but old. So if I use it a few summers and offload it for $10,000 in great shape to someone who doesn't care about authenticity, even if I lost a little I gained a ton of knowledge, the experience of a lifetime, and the thrill of reaping the rewards of 100's of hours of effort.
I won't even start until I price out everything I need mechanically. If the things I KNOW I'll need are going to be over 10,000, then the things I dont know about add another $5k; Then I think the project is somewhat a waste. The woodwork isn't a lot out of pocket, so it doesn't bother me.
BTW....any thoughts on the transmission on this thing? It's the only part I haven't found info on.
I appreciate the honest reply, RWS. Ya, I'm a dreamer...lol

[chucka]

Two transmissions were common with the 1970's 318s
1) Borg Warner Velvet drive or 2)Paragon Gear.

The Borg Warner Velvet drive has a 1:1 ratio. You can download old service & installation manuals here:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6mxo8/down ... Manual.pdf
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6mxo8/down ... Manual.pdf

From the photo it looks like a velvet drive, but I can't tell for sure. Compare yours to the images in these manuals. These are no longer manufactured by Borg warner. Velvet drive is a division of Beloit Regal which took over the line. see http://www.velvetdrive.com/
New transmissions are available in the $1,000 to $2,000 price range. Shop around. Prices vary quite a bit. I bought one locally for quite a bit less than advertised on the internet.

Aa good place to get more info on marine transmissions is here
http://www.marinegears.com/techboard/index.html

I don't have info about Paragon, but you will be able to find info on the marine gear techboard listed above .

Here is a link to a service manual for the Chrysler engine about this vintage.
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/Download ... Manual.pdf

I have to say, I'm with RWS on this - Having "been there and done that" with a boat that was no where near as far gone. If you just like working on old boats and not getting paid for it, you are welcome to come help me out with mine... LOL. After 3 years, and starting with a running boat, I still have more projects to go. There are thousands of tiny details that can't even be imagined until you are in the thick of it.
Here are a couple of other threads you should read.
http://www.trojanboats.net/wforum/viewtopic.php?t=62
http://www.trojanboats.net/wforum/viewtopic.php?t=299

ChuckA

[prowlersfish]

The trans is a Velvet drive for sure ,it is a 1 to 1 ratio . it can be a 70 or a 71 series or even a 72 ( 72used with higher HP BB) most likely a 71, all will interchange if you need to replace it. can be fixed ? who knows but the velvet drive is the cheapest to fix . and easest to find . ( bet I could find one in my shed ) BTW they still make the 71 and 72

Paul

[prowlersfish]

do not not forget the paper work make sure you own it before you put money in to it !