Trojan Boat Forum

Has anyone used Lucas Engine Break-In Oil Additive to increase the amount of ZDDP in their engine oil? Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil has 1400 ppm ZDDP in the oil, but it costs $7.99 per quart. I can buy Shell Formula One oil at BJ's for $2.75 per quart (on sale), but it only has 800 ppm of ZDDP. The Lucas Engine Break-In Oil Additive spec. sheet indicates that adding the full 16 oz. to 4.5 quarts of oil will result in 5000 ppm of ZDDP. Doing the math, if I add 2 oz of the Lucas additive to the Shell oil I should get 1300 ppm ZDDP for less than half the cost of the Valvoline oil. The ZDDP specification for oil in 1971 was 1200 ppm, so 1300 ppm should be fine. Is there any problem with this I'm not seeing?

I do not think you are missing anything----- the additive is basically for the cam to wear in---- very important with solid lifters more than hydraulic and not so much for rollers, so I guess it would matter what lifters you have---- check out zddp in some diesel oils you may be surprised ,rotella t is all I use----- Mike

My 1971 LM318 is a flat tappet (solid lifter) engine. It was designed to have 1200 ZDDP in the oil.

I had a complete re-build on my Starboard 454 (1984 model) last year and was instructed by my machine shop that I had to use zinc enhanced break in oil that they provided. Their warranty also required that a zinc additive be added at each oil change. I use Red Line zinc additive, 8 oz in each engine. See the specs below:


MORE TECHNICAL INFORMATION

Bottle (16oz) contains:
33.8 grams total ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate)
17,000 ppm, 7.8 grams Phosphorus (P)
20,500 ppm, 9.4 grams Zinc (Zn)
16.6 grams Sulphur (S)


Increases of antiwear per quart by using one bottle (16oz.): Oil capacity:
Phosphorus Zinc
15 quarts 610 ppm 736 ppm
12 quarts 763 ppm 920 ppm
10 quarts 915 ppm 1104 ppm
8 quarts 1145 ppm 1380 ppm
7 quarts 1307 ppm 1577 ppm
6 quarts 1525 ppm 1840 ppm
5 quarts 1830 ppm 2208 ppm
4 quarts 2288 ppm 2760 ppm
1 quart 9160 ppm 11040 ppm

Half Bottle (8oz.) When Treating:
12 quarts 382 ppm 460 ppm
10 quarts 458 ppm 552 ppm
8 quarts 572 ppm 690 ppm
6 quarts 763 ppm 920 ppm
5 quarts 915 ppm 1104 ppm
4 quarts 1145 ppm 1380 ppm

I was informed that even the best diesel oils- Delo 400 and Rotellla- have reduced zinc to dangerously low levels for flat tappet engines, and that no regular engine oil alone contained the proper amount of zinc.

I sent a email to Shell asking

Can you tell me the amout of ZDDP ( PPM ) in Rottella T 15w-40 .

Here is the email I got back .

"Rotella T Triple Protection 15W-40 contains approximately 1200 ppm ZDDP. Thank you for your interest in Shell products."

Richard Moore
Lubricants Technical Advisor

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As far as break in oil that is almost a thing of the past . Most companys ( new engine oem ) stop using a break in oil years ago . John Deere in the only one i know of still using a brake in oil . And engines are lasting longer and longer .

Has anyone thought about the negtive effects of adding extra zddp to a oil that made to work with a lower amount ?

I run RD50 in one boat and 20-50 Z-rod in another. Both are very high on Zinc and Phosphorous. Not saying it is the best, just what I found and use.
http://www.amsoil.com//techservicesbull ... Tappet.pdf

This site is pretty good, it's been around for quite a while. You can also search ZDDP here.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

[quote="prowlersfish"]I sent a email to Shell asking

Can you tell me the amout of ZDDP ( PPM ) in Rottella T 15w-40 .

Here is the email I got back .

"Rotella T Triple Protection 15W-40 contains approximately 1200 ppm ZDDP. Thank you for your interest in Shell products."

Richard Moore
Lubricants Technical Advisor

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Good info---- that is why I use rotella in the 360's ------- one thing for sure is in these old engines there is not enough valve spring pressure to worry too much about unless you have got a new rebuild with a new cam---- just my opinion mind you---- Mike

I was surprised at the amount of ZDDP in Rottela . By all the hype on the net you would think there was much less . But most of that comes from additive makers that are . Many diesels are still flat tappet and there is no problems with wear . I would assume many other 15w-40 oils also are about the same on ZDDP as they are not the recommend grade on cars with cats. Most marine engines are recommending 15w-40 . ( merc has a 25-40) .

I'm a little confused here. Are you guys advocating using the Rotella in gas engines? Or just the diesels.

Landlocked wrote:I'm a little confused here. Are you guys advocating using the Rotella in gas engines? Or just the diesels.

Many people use Rotella in older, flat tappet gas engines because of the higher ZDDP levels. I'm currently using 5W-30 SN oil with ZDDP additive. The modern "S" oils for gasoline engines typically have 700 ppm of ZDDP (spec. = 600 - 800 ppm). My 1971 LM318 was designed for 1200 ppm ZDDP. Some argue that the lower levels of ZDDP are fine for stock valve springs and that higher levels of ZDDP are only needed for high performance valve springs that are stiffer than the stock valve springs. I prefer to have 1200 ZDDP in my oil just to be safe, but it might not be needed.

Landlocked wrote:I'm a little confused here. Are you guys advocating using the Rotella in gas engines? Or just the diesels.

Many marine gas engines list 15w-40 as the oil to use and "Shell Rotella® T Triple Protection " is also rated for Gas engines . And with 1200 ppm ZDDP it should eliminate worries about ZDDP . Its also available in 10w-30 but unless your in extreme cold climate its not a recommended grade for marine engines . I have use 15w-40 oil for years in my boats ( most were gas)


I my honest opinon i don't think the lower zddp levels of off the shelf auto oils is a issue on a well broken in camshaft . I see a lot of hi mileage engines ( with flat lifters) and I don't see a failure issue .

prowlersfish wrote:

Landlocked wrote:I'm a little confused here. Are you guys advocating using the Rotella in gas engines? Or just the diesels.

Many marine gas engines list 15w-40 as the oil to use and "Shell Rotella® T Triple Protection " is also rated for Gas engines . And with 1200 ppm ZDDP it should eliminate worries about ZDDP . Its also available in 10w-30 but unless your in extreme cold climate its not a recommended grade for marine engines . I have use 15w-40 oil for years in my boats ( most were gas)


I my honest opinon i don't think the lower zddp levels of off the shelf auto oils is a issue on a well broken in camshaft . I see a lot of hi mileage engines ( with flat lifters) and I don't see a failure issue .

I agree as there is lots of buildup in the metal after time -----the other benefit of rotella etc is they are cheaper by a lot especially when oil changes for two engines and genny total about 16 to 17 litres or about the same in quarts on your side----- so Wally mart is looking good------ Mike

Thanks for the word. I guess, since I've already bought my Havoline 30 weight for this year's winterization (happening next week) I'll stick with it. My 28 year old 454's have about 1500 hours on them. I check compression approx every 3 years and haven't seen a significant change yet.

While it's a pretty large lake we're rarely in a hurry to get from point A to point B. When I look at total miles traveled in a season vs engine hours run we average about 7 mph. So, not pushing the big iron very hard. Hope they're good for another 20 years (but not counting on it).

But the zinc thing is nothing I was aware of or paying attention to. I appreciate the information. Since all my boats are senior citizens I need to learn more about it.

Shell Rotella T 10W-30 oil has a CJ-4 rating. The CJ-4 rating has a maximum phosphorous limit of 1200 ppm. The CJ-4 specifications are at

www.apicj-4.org/performance_specs.html

Since my LM318 manual recommends a 30W oil, I plan on using Shell Rotella T 10W-30 for my next oil change. The Rotella has the ZDDP my engine needs and is also inexpensive. I can buy a 1 gallon bottle for $12.99 ($3.25 per quart). The Valvoline VR racing oil is $7.99 per quart. The Shell Rotella T 10W-30 seems to be the obvious choice.