Trojan 2 - 3 Party System & the What Ifs

[RWS]

Compared to other "production boats" it seems that our orphaned brand has a good reputation and a consistent following, despite being off the market for some time.

Our boats are really getting OLD and they represent a tremendous VALUE as compared to other brands.

We're a three or a four party system:

1. F series

2. TriCabin

3. International Series

4. wooden boats - pre fiberglass production

Now, consider for a moment what the outcome MIGHT HAVE BEEN had Carver gone a different route with the buyout.

What they DID was to take an established and respectible BRAND and badge thier own new series of "Luxury Express Yachts"

That aside, what do you THINK WOULD have been the outcome had they done the following:

1. kept the popular F series and updated the cabins?

2. kept the International series (irrespective of patent issues) and updated the design into a fishing battlewagon series and the high end series?

3. What would YOU have reccomended, hindsight being 20-20?

4. The current market aside, what would the viability be of these lines in tomorrows marketplace?

I'm interseted in the perspectives that will be posted here.

Regards,

RWS

[prowlersfish]

The F series is a classic design that is timeless and may still sold . The internationals with the right marketing would done well as alot of other company's copied them , cruisers criscraft searay and or course carver all have made copys in some form

[todd brinkerhoff]

Tiara would have real competition in todays market, forcing them to sell boats at a more reasonable price. Its hard to find another manufacturer that is competing with the wants of a Tiara customer. There are some manufactureres building quality boats, like Formula and Cobalt, but none with the same battle wagon, sporting, and seaworthy qualities as Tiara. Tiara prices are out of control because there is no similiar competing line. Although I do like looking at the newer Tiaras and seeing if I can do some of those updates to my International for a fraction of the cost.

[randyp]

I'm with Paul on the timeless design of the F Series. All models, regardless of size were and still are basis for many designs still around (ignoring the Euro-bubble designs that really really suck). I think the boats would be more current in terms of propulsion and electronics, as well as cabin design and creature comforts, but would have still retained their lines. I also think they would have added a trawler or trawler-inspired model. I think the International series is great looking and was and still is a answer to the call for this type of design, but I'm a big F-series fan.

[rossjo]

I would have kept the F series , and made some gradual improvements - perhaps dropping the F32 (although thats whet I have) - ending up with an F26, F36 and F42 or F44.

I would have kept the International series as well - starting @ 10m ... perhaps adding a 16m or larger down the line ...

I would have picked one TriCabin model and evolved it into a Pilot House of about 45'.

I would not have continued wood production.

[rickalan35]

RWS - Interesting post. Makes one wonder.

I like Rossjo's thoughts. I agree with his opinion here.

The Tricabin represents a different market than the F series and I believe that both boats have been very well received and if continued would have morphed into a success story that would have continued to advance a respected Trojan marque. Don't you think that the International series whould have competed very briskly within the Sundancer market?

Rick

[RWS]

The International series is what GAVE Sea Ray and others that market.

See SUNDANCER

Portofino, etc.

Now, imagine the International hull design coupled with a more modern cabin and fittings.

Kill the Formica and replace it with the cherry laminate like the SkiRays, throw in some Corian countertops in the galley, the dinette and the head.

Next is a better looking non-skid (like Tiara)

Those hidden flourescents were really cool in 1982, but a lighting update along with hidden piano hinges on lockers, a livewell option and additional storage space built into the usable area under the Doris Day circular stairs, fwd stateroom bunk and the cavernous areas below the aft deck - O.K. now set her side by side with a Sea Ray or Tiara.

RWS

[todd brinkerhoff]

I am obviously only speaking for the International series, as this is my only experience with Trojan. In my area, we have a bunch of 10M and 11M expresses and convertibles, and my lonely 10.8. I really don't think Trojan's version of the International was in the same line as the Sundancers. I view the International as a more of a utility type vessel than the Sundancer. The Sundancer definately caters toward the folks wanting luxury. When Carver took over Trojan, they continued their own version of the International, and definately tried to follow the Sea Ray model, making it much more of a luxury and comfort boat. The originanal Trojan Internationals do not have the same refinement, and are geared toward the working captain. Almost all of the 10 Meters in my area are charter boats, and most of the 11M. Thats why I compare the International Expresses more to the Tiara than Sea Ray.

[todd brinkerhoff]

RWS,

I think you just created my work list [/quote]

[rossjo]

Don't Sundancers use I/Os on all their boats? I know people with the 26 & 28 version, but not sure if the larger ones are I/O or not.

[k9th]

I would have kept the F series , and made some gradual improvements - perhaps dropping the F32 (although thats whet I have) - ending up with an F26, F36 and F42 or F44.

Ross

I would have kept the International series as well - starting @ 10m ... perhaps adding a 16m or larger down the line ...

I would have picked one TriCabin model and evolved it into a Pilot House of about 45'.

I would not have continued wood production.

I agree with your four points as presented. I know every time I take my tri-cabin somewhere she gets a lot of looks and heads turning There aren't that many around and the roominess inside and classic lines are unparalleled.

I live in the city that Formula Boats calls home and my wife and her family know the owner and his family very well. He speaks very highly of Trojan boats. They have had a hard time with the economic downturn but things are turning around some.

Our Trojans will remain timeless since they represent a classic design and unparalleled quality. As we owners of today continue to upgrade and use our boats, we will propagate the legacy of our wonderful brand.

Long live the Trojan boat!

[Rnd]

It's funny you would compare the International Express with Tiara. In my search for my next boat I limited my options to 11 meter express and the Tiara 36 Open. Both boats very well built and more of a utility/working class boat than Sea Rays. IMO the Trojan wins with it"s larger cabin and still has a very sizeable cockpit and helm area. Sea Ray is not even in the same class.

RWS's point about up grades is dead on. Counter tops, flooring, and cabinets would make all the difference in the world. You put a factory/quailty hard top and some rocket launchers on that International and look out Tiara..... You now have some serious competion.

[todd brinkerhoff]

...and you are getting the Trojan for what is probably a significantly lower price. I love Tiara's, but they are unattainable for the common man. So your ideas of modifying the Trojan is the second best thing. Good luck with your purchase. You won't go wrong either way.

[rbcool]

My mid 90s Searay 330 had twin 454s w/ v drives and WOT 44 mph (gps), and I caught many dozen 40 inch rockfish while fishing in small craft advisories with 4-5' waves. She was an EXtremily sound boat that horrifically slammed the water many times. But I finaly got the "need for speed" out of my system and the Admiral wanted more roominess. Thank God we found the Trojan Tri. We will never go back now!!

The only thing we ever liked form Carver was the Mariner series.
IMHO They definately should have kept the F series going and incorperated the Tri while fasing out the mariner

Ron

[gettaway]

I agree with many points that have been posted regarding this topic, and it is very interesting.
I have three Uniflights fairly close to my 1977 F-32 in my marina, the closest is a 30' 1978, and it looks like it is 20 years older than mine.
So the classic lines comment is dead on. everytime I walk up to the boat, she does not look like a 33 year old boat, there are tell tale signs she is older like the poor window design and the small diameter hand rails on the bow, but overall, the F32 is a nice looking boat with pleasing lines, whether you fish or just like to cocktail cruise, the F32 is a great all around boat in here size.
On the price point issue, I doubt that Trojan would be an inexpensive boat if they were still built today, for a number of reasons;
-creature comforts, Trojan would have had to incoprorate a finer finish on the wood work,galley, counter tops, interior space in the storage areas, doors, latches etc in order to compete in todays market
-propulsion, Trojan would have had to offer diesels in the F32 to compete with the Riviera, bertram, egg harbors etc. Plus it is a feature most want
- A double berth in the forward cabin and a shower
-better design for the fly bridge supports and window arrangement

Plus you cannot over look the fact that it is almost cost prohibitive to build a production boat in the US, the EPA has so many enviromental regulations on the components it takes to build a boat, each one with it's own "fee" (tax)plus all of the other normal costs to build what used to be a F series boat and make them battle wagons
They would most likely be built in China today