1987 10 meter mid cabin complete restoration.

tsawyer · Post by **tsawyer** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:18 pm

I don't have louvered doors on my bar and I've not seen those before. Maybe it will keep water out of there. Are you going to put them back on?

I had a quote of $2700 just to do the bolsters (7 pieces). I have not had them done yet, but maybe this winter.

jefflaw35 · Post by **jefflaw35** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:34 pm

Oh man Todd... This is a grey area. The good guns are the best. BUT if you have a cheap 1.4 just keep it very clean between jobs. 1.8 to 2.4 would have been better. My guns have reached the 900$ tag UHg....SATA. Do this!!! Lay 1 heavy coat in a arms lenth reach... Wait 2 minutes and watch pinholes form. Take a plastic spreader and wipe them back and forth till filled. Prime a coat instantly and move on... Then go on about your directions. You wont hurt anything, just alow another day or so to dry, it will look sloppy and thick but your gonna sand/block it down. Your good to go... Less material and less work

jefflaw35 · Post by **jefflaw35** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:44 pm

Sorry had to correct that. Im not using epoxy primer. I am using urethane. How much is awgrip getting per quart for the epoxy?

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:18 am

Painting a boat and a car are diffrent . Awlgrip is not the same as are auto paint /

jefflaw35 · Post by **jefflaw35** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:46 am

weve been over this 20 times here. read the ingredients and data sheets. Base/clear and or single stage are all the same minus the flex additive. Even Alex seal and awgrip will tell you this.

summer storm · Post by **summer storm** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:24 pm

jefflaw35 wrote:Oh man Todd... This is a grey area. The good guns are the best. BUT if you have a cheap 1.4 just keep it very clean between jobs. 1.8 to 2.4 would have been better. My guns have reached the 900$ tag UHg....SATA. Do this!!! Lay 1 heavy coat in a arms lenth reach... Wait 2 minutes and watch pinholes form. Take a plastic spreader and wipe them back and forth till filled. Prime a coat instantly and move on... Then go on about your directions. You wont hurt anything, just alow another day or so to dry, it will look sloppy and thick but your gonna sand/block it down. Your good to go... Less material and less work

I'm not sure about that one Jeff, I had my 32 stripped and painted top to bottom and although I didn't paint it myself, I was there for the whole process. I don't remember any pin holes or wiping the wet primer paint with a spreader. After priming mine looked like a flat version of the goss coat. We did not use any bondo or "putty" on the boat, my guy filled all the cracks/nicks with fiberglass so maybe that's the difference. BTW, he told me you should never use bondo on a boat, stating that sooner than later it will fall out. Is this true?

yorklyn · Post by **yorklyn** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:16 pm

Jeff,
I found a place online that had the 545 epoxy base one gallon for $84 the activator for $79 and a gallon of reducer for $40. West marine sells a gallon of 545 for $140, activator $140 , and reducer for $85!
I'm not sure what to expect with applying the primer. I've heard of some pinhole issues but not to extreme that jeff had.
Im using thickened west system with the medium density fairing filler. Any spider cracks have been totally ground out back to the matting. Has a few small places that were pretty bad on the transom where the swim platform attached. I had added bracing and supports on the inside when I did the stringers . In those areas I ground out all the cracks then used west system and chop strand mat to bring it back out, ground it flush and then filled the imperfections with fairing compound.
I worked on fairing today for 6 hours on the topsides and am convinced that satin himself invented button snaps to torture me! I am not going to use cockpit carpet again and removed over 30 of the snaps, I filled those 30 holes and the additional 50 holes that were filled with caulk (after I ground out all the caulk)!!!

yorklyn · Post by **yorklyn** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:28 pm

I agree with Prowlerfish. From what I've read awlgrip and auto paint are not similar. I have read alot of people that had experience spraying cars say that awlgrip was a totally different technique. Lucky for me I don't have a clue to do either! I think I am going to man up and go buy one of the good spray guns that awlgrip recommends. My work spray guns for foam and coatings cost $2000 to $3000 each, I don't think I can disrespect the ol trojan with a $79 spray gun!

By the way if anyone is thinking of wet sanding their international to bring back the gelcoat dont worry about sanding through it, its thick as heck! it was well over 1/8 inch everywhere i ground through it. I have used a 5inch da sander and have sanded the entire hull 2X with 60 grit and 1X with 150 and never came close to going through the gell.

todd brinkerhoff · Post by **todd brinkerhoff** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:24 pm

We had pinhole issues with the 545 during the first spray. After the second, and finally the last coat, my spray guy determined it was technique and not the paint. He was was use to cars and was worried about drips. He ended up putting on more product and having the sprayer tip closer and the issue went away.

jefflaw35 · Post by **jefflaw35** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:11 pm

You can fill them with thicker material, just keep in mind you are building mills a lot higher than you should. It will cause problems down the road. Wet coat and spread.. Wet coat again then sand and reprime with 1or2 coats. It's over and your film build is safe

yorklyn · Post by **yorklyn** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:18 pm

I spoke with the guy whose was going to spray my final coat and ordered more awlgrip. Going with two kits of 545 primer (4 gallons plus reducer).
one kit of cloud white (2 gallons plus reducer)for topsides above the rubrail and cockpit and one kit of Ice Blue for the hullsides (2 gallons plus reducer). I think I may be alittle short on the cloud white but since im going to roll the nonskid after the spraying is done I can always order more.
The painter offered to spray the 545 primer for me and come back after i sand. I accepted his offer!

jefflaw35 · Post by **jefflaw35** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:04 pm

Good idea Todd, Im sure every boat can be different just like anything else. At least you wont lose alot of money in experimenting yourself. He should be able to control the situation then you can sand it down for him.. My transom and rear hull was bad with pin holes in the gelcoat. the rest of boat has seem to be mild.

jefflaw35 · Post by **jefflaw35** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:19 pm

[quote="summer storm"][quote="jefflaw35"]Oh man Todd... This is a grey area. The good guns are the best. BUT if you have a cheap 1.4 just keep it very clean between jobs. 1.8 to 2.4 would have been better. My guns have reached the 900$ tag UHg....SATA. Do this!!! Lay 1 heavy coat in a arms lenth reach... Wait 2 minutes and watch pinholes form. Take a plastic spreader and wipe them back and forth till filled. Prime a coat instantly and move on... Then go on about your directions. You wont hurt anything, just alow another day or so to dry, it will look sloppy and thick but your gonna sand/block it down. Your good to go... Less material and less work[/quote]

I'm not sure about that one Jeff, I had my 32 stripped and painted top to bottom and although I didn't paint it myself, I was there for the whole process. I don't remember any pin holes or wiping the wet primer paint with a spreader. After priming mine looked like a flat version of the goss coat. We did not use any bondo or "putty" on the boat, my guy filled all the cracks/nicks with fiberglass so maybe that's the difference. BTW, he told me you should never use bondo on a boat, stating that sooner than later it will fall out. Is this true?[/quote]

No its not true, Gm made corvettes in a mold then gelcoated for protection before priming and painting. Gelcoat was no where near as thick as boats though. I would Never use "Bondo" or even Evercoats Z-grip on a fiberglass job. I filled my cracks/larger holes with glass resin epoxy, west systems, used short strand glass to build up, then a very thin coat of YES "metal Glaze" becuases its more flexible than a bondo. Its very very thin though. Yes in 20 years i have only painted 4 boats and one of my own, the Trojan will be the second personal with auto paint. Look me up 10 years from now and we will see. I still know the people I painted boats and fixed damage for and they are all fine! If things were ment to last for ever I think none of use would be here asking questions. IMO you are ok to use non-marine labeled chemical products for the appereance sector.. They are cheaper and have not failed any where to my knowlegde. Its preference though... Personally I like to save where I can so I can spend a little more in different places..If paint and motors lasted forever I wouldnt have a job! I wouoldnt expect 20 years on the saltwater with any paint job, I do have 2 that are 10 years old and still look great...Long as the customers happy!! Ill keep painting with my half priced Dupont products LOL

and yes the metal glaze "Polyester" goes just fine with fiberglass. This I do have corvettes in past 20 years that are still fine. Vette just dont sit in water LOLReguardless i have never seen any just fall out. I would think that would be an error on the technican and their ability to do the job properly, again just IMO

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:34 pm

Whats a qoute and whats not ???

jefflaw35 · Post by **jefflaw35** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:45 pm

First ill apologize to Todd, clearly i started this high jack. Second Paul i have not much interest in arguing this with you untill you research all of the paint product info from all companies. Clearly you have not. Im sure its hard on the ego but you really to gather some facts. Btw coke, pepsi and RC all have different ingredents. I was suprised you didnt research that being a chemist and all.... :roll: