FloScan Install Completed

This forum is for comments and the exchange of information relating to Trojan Boats and boating. Please do not post used parts or boats For Sale in this area. For general, non-boating topics please use our "General Discussions" section.

Note: Negative or inflammatory postings will not be tolerated.

Moderators: BeaconMarineBob, Moderator, BeaconMarineDon

User avatar
RWS
Ultimate User
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:01 am
Location: West Coast Florida
Contact:

FloScan Install Completed

Post by RWS »

The Floscan installation has been completed. (photos attached)

I used the factory brackets to attach the port side, and fabricated my own brackets for the starboard side. I took my time with the installation and was careful about the placement of the sensors and the pulsation dampeners with regard to not restricting access to any other engine room mechanical components.

The project took two weekends. All the connections are crimped and sealed with heatshrink tubing. Where multiple wires were exposed, I used a flexible plastic split wire loom. I tagged all my wires with a labelmaker as well as identifying the supply and return units for identification. All wiring and additional fuel hoses are mechanically clamped or ty-wrapped as necessary.

Although the final (fine) calibration is not complete, therefore the data collected cannot be relied on as far as actual burn rates are concerned. A fill up of fuel, a decent run and a final fill up will provide the info needed for final calibration. That said, the data collected thus far does tell us where our sweet spots are and what kind of difference exists incrementally.

Once fine calibration is done, we may likely find some fine tuning of propeller pitch will be required as well.

Prior to the repower, I was running counter rotating Crusader 454 engines. I had an Ensign digital tach/sync and a gasoline Floscan which was deadly accurate to within five gallons on every fill up with no calibration.
The Yanmar 6LP Turbodiesel refit engines are NOT counterrotating. The counter rotation is achieved by running one of the 2:1 ratio ZF 63A gears in FWD and the other in reverse. In this case the Port ratio is 2.04:1 and the Starboard ratio is 2.10:1.

This disparity resulted in the inability to sync the engines by tachometers or by engine sound. The engines were synched by matching the boost pressure.

The Floscan installation and data has disclosed several important bits of information that will have an impact on the performance of this vessel. Among them is:

1. Apparently the VDO tachs were over reporting RPM at higher speeds. It appears that the Floscan digital tach are accurate, however this will be verified with a photo tach soon.

2. Assuming the Floscan tach data to be accurate, we will likely decrease our current 20x20 prop pitch somewhat once all the results are in.

3. At cruising speeds, these turbodiesel Yanmar engines in the 10 meter Harry Shoell Delta Conic hull design have a fairly flat fuel burn curve. From 2400 RPM to 3200 RPM we increase 7.6 knots from 14.3 kts to 22.9 kts with an increased burn of only 0.11 gallons for both engines.

4. While matching the boost pressure did get me close, (as in item #3 above) it appears that matching the actual fuel burn between the engines makes a significant difference in total overall efficiency. For example, an increase in speed from 17.1 kts to 22.1 kts with the engines synched to FUEL BURN resulted in an hourly fuel burn increase of only 0.06 gallons for both engines. This data is very significant for trip planning. I could make a run to Key West in as little as 7 hours at 22.1 kts (25.4 mph) (vs. 9 hours) and the additional fuel burn would be a negligible 7.5 gallons. This could mean getting in earlier in the day or avoiding an afternoon thunder shower.

5. Again, keep in mind that until the final (fine) calibration is completed, and the possible change in prop pitch done, the actual burn rate may change, however the incremental rates will not, at least to any great consequence.

Although the data is not all in, at the moment I am satisfied with the decision to move ahead with this install. Knowing what the real burn rate is at any given speed, we can now better plan for a trip and the overall result will be our using the boat more. The additional feature of having baseline data will also alert me to a potential engine or prop problem down the road.


RWS


Starboard
Starboard
photo_one_resized.jpg (28.4 KiB) Viewed 6933 times

Starboard
Starboard
photo_one_resized.jpg (28.4 KiB) Viewed 6933 times


Image
Attachments
Port
Port
photo 2_resized.JPG (32.59 KiB) Viewed 6933 times
Last edited by RWS on Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:34 am, edited 4 times in total.
1983 10 Meter SOLD after 21 years of adventures
Yanmar diesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner
Survived Andrew Cat 5,Eye of Charley Cat 4, & Irma Cat 2
Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

WEBSITE & SITELOCK TOTALLY SELF FUNDED
User avatar
srokag44
Sporadic User
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:16 pm
Location: Merritt Island, FL

Re: FloSacn Install Completed

Post by srokag44 »

Great post! Accepting that you haven't completed a final calibration yet, what were your actual fuel burn rates at 2400 and 3200 rpm?
1985 Trojan 10 Meter International Sedan
User avatar
RWS
Ultimate User
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:01 am
Location: West Coast Florida
Contact:

Re: FloSacn Install Completed

Post by RWS »

Hopefully the Moderator will be able to resize the images provided for better data viewing.

RWS
1983 10 Meter SOLD after 21 years of adventures
Yanmar diesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner
Survived Andrew Cat 5,Eye of Charley Cat 4, & Irma Cat 2
Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

WEBSITE & SITELOCK TOTALLY SELF FUNDED
User avatar
Moderator
Moderate User
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:48 am
Location: Could be anywhere
Contact:

Re: FloSacn Install Completed

Post by Moderator »

Moderator is not that smart , I can delete it :D But I am not a IT guy that's Dons area sorry
Moderator

Helping keep Trojan Yachts alive .
Forum Moderator
TrojanBoats.Net
Trojan Boater
User avatar
Stripermann2
Ultimate User
Posts: 3027
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:11 am
Location: Solomon's Island, MD

Re: FloSacn Install Completed

Post by Stripermann2 »

Hey Moderator, I don't think we've ever known what model and year Trojan you have. What do you got?

Thanks.
Jamie


1985 F-32 270 Crusaders
1988 Sea Ray 23 350 Merc.
Trojan. Enjoy the ride...

-I don't wanna hear anyone whine...Anymore!
-You might get there before me, but you still have to wait for me, for the fun to start!
User avatar
BobCT
Active User
Posts: 1068
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:01 pm
Location: New Haven CT

Re: FloSacn Install Completed

Post by BobCT »

Is a "FloSacn" the diesel version? I looked on their website but couldn't find it :) Dammit, such a great post too!

For anyone on the fence (gas or diesel), this is a great upgrade. I find myself looking at this gauge as much as my temp and oil pressure. My Stb engine burns about 1 GPH more than my port engine. Close enough right? Well then I started thinking... at 80 hours last year averaging 25GPH hour that's $320 @ $4.00 a gallon. Now, I don't know if I can find that 1GPH, but if I do that alone is more than 1/2 of what I paid for the whole setup. Try doing that by "ear".... not happening.

Bob
1988 10m mid cabin
User avatar
RWS
Ultimate User
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:01 am
Location: West Coast Florida
Contact:

Re: FloSacn Install Completed

Post by RWS »

BobCT wrote:Is a "FloSacn" the diesel version? I looked on their website but couldn't find it :) Dammit, such a great post too!



Bob
Thanks Bob,

It's the diesel version with two sensors and two pulsation dampeners per side.

RWS
1983 10 Meter SOLD after 21 years of adventures
Yanmar diesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner
Survived Andrew Cat 5,Eye of Charley Cat 4, & Irma Cat 2
Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

WEBSITE & SITELOCK TOTALLY SELF FUNDED
User avatar
Stripermann2
Ultimate User
Posts: 3027
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:11 am
Location: Solomon's Island, MD

Re: FloSacn Install Completed

Post by Stripermann2 »

I installed my Floscans a few years ago. Only wish I had done it sooner. You can forget about erratic or inoperable fuel tank sending units once you've done this... :)
Jamie


1985 F-32 270 Crusaders
1988 Sea Ray 23 350 Merc.
Trojan. Enjoy the ride...

-I don't wanna hear anyone whine...Anymore!
-You might get there before me, but you still have to wait for me, for the fun to start!
larryeddington
Ultimate User
Posts: 1876
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:08 pm
Location: Canton, TX Boat on TEXOMA

Re: FloSacn Install Completed

Post by larryeddington »

seems like someone said it is bad to run a transmission in reverse with a forward pushing prop, I think, I am confused. :?
Larry Eddington
1984 F-36 Tri Cabin "The Phoenix II"
1978 F-28 "The Phoenix"
Fish Master 2350 Bay Boat
9.5' Dink
User avatar
prowlersfish
2025 Gold Support
2025 Gold Support
Posts: 12728
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:56 pm
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay ,Va

Re: FloSacn Install Completed

Post by prowlersfish »

larryeddington wrote:seems like someone said it is bad to run a transmission in reverse with a forward pushing prop, I think, I am confused. :?

That's true Larry on some transmissions like your velvet drive and paragon , On some Transmissions like any many ZF's some T Disc Its ok as they are made to take full power in" Reverse" , Actually on a ZF there is no forward or reverse so to speed They have a A position and a B position the A is what normally would be called forward B would be what you would call reverse .Mine are set up that way too (ZF 220A)

On the velvet drive there are less clutches in reverse so the can not take full power .
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
User avatar
Big D
Ultimate User
Posts: 2876
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 10:39 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: FloSacn Install Completed

Post by Big D »

prowlersfish wrote:
larryeddington wrote:seems like someone said it is bad to run a transmission in reverse with a forward pushing prop, I think, I am confused. :?

That's true Larry on some transmissions like your velvet drive and paragon , On some Transmissions like ZF some T Disc Its ok as they are made to take full power in" Reverse" , Actually on a ZF there is no forward or reverse so to speed They have a A position and a B position the A is what normally would be called forward B would be what you would call reverse .

On the velvet drive there are less clutches in reverse so the can not take full power .
+1
Bi-directional under high load. They are just as happy at full power in one direction or the other. No more counter-rotating engines, and to minimize the design to change the engine's directional output, it's simply a matter of activating the unit's shift lever in one direction or the other.
Last edited by Big D on Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
She was a 1969 36 ft wooden beauty with big blue 440s that we'll miss forever.
And thanks to the gang, 2012 Trojan Boater Of The Year
User avatar
yorklyn
Active User
Posts: 1139
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:14 pm
Location: Hockessin Delaware

Re: FloSacn Install Completed

Post by yorklyn »

Great post Harris! You are really impressive with all the great great data! If this was my post it would be lame, "put new flo scans on, too lazy to calibrate them, looks like going faster is BETTER!" :mrgreen:
But seriously , awesome job. These hulls seem to handle a lot better over 25mph as they really seem to get up on plane. unfortunately thats not very economical with gassers.

Do you guys have any recommendations on which model flo scan to get? Been looking at them but am somewhat confused. was hoping to replace my tachs with a digital readout so I could more accurately sync the engines. cant figure out the best model?
Todd Pote
1987 10 Meter Mid Cabin
Double Pote-N_Sea
1992 Scout 15.5 Center Console
User avatar
Moderator
Moderate User
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:48 am
Location: Could be anywhere
Contact:

Re: FloSacn Install Completed

Post by Moderator »

Stripermann2 wrote:Hey Moderator, I don't think we've ever known what model and year Trojan you have. What do you got?

Thanks.
Glad you asked and I don't need flow scans
Attachments
redneck houseboat photos - Bing Images.jpg
redneck houseboat photos - Bing Images.jpg (36.75 KiB) Viewed 6842 times
Moderator

Helping keep Trojan Yachts alive .
Forum Moderator
TrojanBoats.Net
Trojan Boater
8lug
Registered user
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:56 pm

Re: FloSacn Install Completed

Post by 8lug »

very nice
User avatar
RWS
Ultimate User
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:01 am
Location: West Coast Florida
Contact:

Re: FloSacn Install Completed

Post by RWS »

srokag44 wrote:Great post! Accepting that you haven't completed a final calibration yet, what were your actual fuel burn rates at 2400 and 3200 rpm?

1.4 and 1.3 SMPG respectively.

The chart is now up !

RWS
1983 10 Meter SOLD after 21 years of adventures
Yanmar diesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner
Survived Andrew Cat 5,Eye of Charley Cat 4, & Irma Cat 2
Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

WEBSITE & SITELOCK TOTALLY SELF FUNDED
Post Reply